The Decision to Chase to the River.

[Robmrjet]

:questionm #1: Under what conditions will you NOT chase a hand all the way to the river?

:questionm #2: Under what conditions WILL you chase a hand all the way to the river?


Experienced player input, GREATLY welcomed. :congrats:

Non-experienced player input...curiously welcomed. :icon_thum

 

[IamVALHALLA]

Nut flush draw, or open-ended straight draw IF it is cheap enough.
Sometimes if I have (for example) 4 hearts on the flop (with the Ah in my hand), I'll re-raise a big bet all-in since I have approx 36% chance of drawing another heart by the river.

 

[MinorMisfit]

are you getting the correct odds to call and chase your draw? Will this player pay you off when you hit your hand? These are the questions you should be asking your self when deciding to chase a draw.

The odds of hitting your flush draw on the river with two cards to come is about 36%
So if your short stacked, and have a chance to go all in with your draw getting 2.5 to 1 on your money its profitable.

If your deep stack then you want at least 4-1 on your money to chase your draw to the next street. Also, if you think the player will pay you off when you hit your draw that means you have implied odds to call.

Hope this helps! Good luck!

 

[IcyNicy]

If I am sure that I will win this pot or just because of curiosity I will call till the end)
But as it was said if chances of the pot will be good or the next cards will be cheap. No way I will call big bets without a hand. Should it be a straight or a flush.

 

[hugh blair]

Just love swimming man if I got a decent shot I am dogging you to the river pot odds king will not chase if you man up bet big or all in and take my pot odds away good luck

 

[Robmrjet]

Great comments!

I'm glad to see I'm not the only one willing to be dragged to the river and drowned.

But when you win that the river....
it's a Si Robertson moment! happy,happy,happy

 

[CrashMcCarran]

My thought process is, are the odds correct? If I miss, can I bluff the river on certain run outs? Do I need to make a move on an earlier street to get max value or set up a bluff?

 

[Robmrjet]

My thought process is, are the odds correct? If I miss, can I bluff the river on certain run outs? Do I need to make a move on an earlier street to get max value or set up a bluff?

Thanks for jumping in...


bluffing after chasing...
That's one thing I personally don't put into the equation on if I will chase to the river.


I may go allin...not caring if I get called in a freeroll...but that's not me bluffing.
That's me not caring if you were or not.:captain:


Cash game?....no telling.

 

[bablovod]

1. I'm not going to drive over the river if the flop did not bring the opponents are too aggressive. without aggression you will wait the turn. if the turn is a blank, most likely will drop.
2. I'm going to drive over the river with any draw. especially on the turn for fear of just an all in.

 

[CrashMcCarran]

Thanks for jumping in...


Bluffing after chasing...
That's one thing I personally don't put into the equation on if I will chase to the river.


I may go allin...not caring if I get called in a freeroll...but that's not me bluffing.
That's me not caring if you were or not.:captain:


Cash game?....no telling.

I'm not saying that I bluff EVERY river I miss, but given certain run outs where I have range advantage, a bluff is greater than 50% to give me a pot I have not a chance to win via showdown.

Let's say we have 9s8s on a board of Js 7s 6h, 4h, 3h and we're in the small blind and three bet preflop or just called a raise. Check called the flop and turn. That's a great run out to bluff for us. The pot is probably pretty bloated and we have to fire a pretty big shell but that is a scary board for a lot of hands that have us beat but can't call us if we size our bet correctly.

There's more to draws than just chasing. Hopefully I cleared up any ambiguity from my previous post.

 

[DougPkrMonsta]

I'm assuming you are calling because you don't feel there would be any fold equity on a semi-bluff... Compare the pot odds to chances of completing your hand and decide accordingly.

If you think your opponent is strong and will pay you off when you hit, you should adjust for implied odds. Also you should take into account the times you hit your hand and still lose (river can pair, completing your flush etc.)

Good luck to you!

 

[Robmrjet]

I'm not saying that I bluff EVERY river I miss, but given certain run outs where I have range advantage, a bluff is greater than 50% to give me a pot I have not a chance to win via showdown.

Let's say we have 9s8s on a board of Js 7s 6h, 4h, 3h and we're in the small blind and three bet preflop or just called a raise. Check called the flop and turn. That's a great run out to bluff for us. The pot is probably pretty bloated and we have to fire a pretty big shell but that is a scary board for a lot of hands that have us beat but can't call us if we size our bet correctly.

There's more to draws than just chasing. Hopefully I cleared up any ambiguity from my previous post.

Crash,
I understood you didn't go at it with the intent to bluff on every hand, and the hand you just laid out...I agree. It's a great scenario of a hand that "can" win under "certain" situations. I agree. :icon_thum

What I was saying was....
I don't go into a hand with all that "considering" you said you undertake when entering a hand. I just don't do it.

I know there are really good "Bluff Players" out there. You very likely maybe one of them. They incorporate bluffing in a larger percentage of their game than most players out there. They even enter a fair percentage of hands with the "intent to bluff" to win the hand.
They do it because they've proven their ability to win doing it.
AND....it's a great answer to the question I started this Thread with. Go to the river to bluff the win.
And I know that there are players that just keep that bluffing mentality in their head, and pull it out when they see an opening to use it, when they believe the percentages of the win using it are in their favor. I agree with all that too. :icon_salu

I'm a mechanic by trade. I understand the tools (bluffing) and the tool box (head, brain).
And I know that there are a lot of tools in the old toolbox that come out from time to time, or a lot of times depending on the particular mechanic.

I personally am not one of those players who will go the river considering all the angles on bluffing going there.
And I'm not one of those players looking for opportunities to Bluff.

If I chase to the river....it's because the percentages on a 9 player table of those 2 cards in my hand winning.......are in my favor. No matter how small.
The villain/villains... actions Preflop, and again on the Flop, and again on the Turn....are MY deciding factors when chasing to the River.
But then, I'm not a poker player. I play poker.

But yes,
I understood you didn't do it every time.
Everything you've said, I agree with. I'm just not thinking about it.
I'm too focused on setting the guy up......by showing my 7 2 offsuits,
so he'll call....my quad kings.

((true story..happened the other night))

Again, thanks for contributing with the thoughts, and process. It's greatly appreciated!! :tee:

 

[CrashMcCarran]

Thanks for jumping in...


Bluffing after chasing...
That's one thing I personally don't put into the equation on if I will chase to the river.


I may go allin...not caring if I get called in a freeroll...but that's not me bluffing.
That's me not caring if you were or not.:captain:


Cash game?....no telling.

Crash,
I understood you didn't go at it with the intent to bluff on every hand, and the hand you just laid out...I agree. It's a great scenario of a hand that "can" win under "certain" situations. I agree. :icon_thum

What I was saying was....
I don't go into a hand with all that "considering" you said you undertake when entering a hand. I just don't do it.

I know there are really good "Bluff Players" out there. You very likely maybe one of them. They incorporate bluffing in a larger percentage of their game than most players out there. They even enter a fair percentage of hands with the "intent to bluff" to win the hand.
They do it because they've proven their ability to win doing it.
AND....it's a great answer to the question I started this Thread with. Go to the river to bluff the win.
And I know that there are players that just keep that bluffing mentality in their head, and pull it out when they see an opening to use it, when they believe the percentages of the win using it are in their favor. I agree with all that too. :icon_salu

I'm a mechanic by trade. I understand the tools (bluffing) and the tool box (head, brain).
And I know that there are a lot of tools in the old toolbox that come out from time to time, or a lot of times depending on the particular mechanic.

I personally am not one of those players who will go the river considering all the angles on bluffing going there.
And I'm not one of those players looking for opportunities to Bluff.

If I chase to the river....it's because the percentages on a 9 player table of those 2 cards in my hand winning.......are in my favor. No matter how small.
The villain/villains... actions Preflop, and again on the Flop, and again on the Turn....are MY deciding factors when chasing to the River.
But then, I'm not a poker player. I play poker.

But yes,
I understood you didn't do it every time.
Everything you've said, I agree with. I'm just not thinking about it.
I'm too focused on setting the guy up......by showing my 7 2 offsuits,
so he'll call....my quad kings.

((true story..happened the other night))

Again, thanks for contributing with the thoughts, and process. It's greatly appreciated!! :tee:

Haha, I like it, way to get away with the set up!