Dealing with bad streaks in SNGs

tomix

tomix

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Hi all. I'm a new user here, hope to take part in some discussions ;-)

To start, i need to say i'm building my bankroll at PKR. From nothing. I took a part in a private freeroll at PKR and finished 3rd for a $12.5 a few weeks ago. I know, it was pure luck, but i did not take it seriously as i didn't like their playstation-style software much, so i invested my $12.5 into two $5.5 MTTs. Got busted in the first one and took first in the second for a total of $421.5 bankroll. Made a cashout of $200, and continued playing those $5.50 MTTs with the rest of it.

As we all know, MTTs is a thing you can never trust on :) So, i thought, why not start playing some low buy-in 10 seat SNGs for a more steady income. At least it was supposed to cover my buyins for MTTs .

So i started with $1.1 SNGs to get warmed, made some $15 profit in a couple days as expected and then got into $3.30 SNGs.

That's where it all began. I could not manage to get myself ITM for the first 18 SNGs! I was badbeaten every time, at every table in every possition. I will not complain about my trip aces being crushed when Q-7 hits a middle pair on the flop, pushes allin and then hits his Q-Q on turn and river for quads, just because sh*t happens, and that's the thing i can deal with. The real problem is, it happened 18 times in a row! Sometimes i was losing nut flush to a pair that becomes a full house till the river, sometimes it was just AA lost to some JJ, or similar, but 9 times out of 10 i was allin, i was a (often a HUGE) favorite to win the hand, and i lost it.

The good thing is my bankroll still allows that down swing.

The bad thing is i do not feel like a poker player anymore. I feel like a gold mine for those villains who take all my chips any time they want. Against any odds. And there is nothing i can do. It was ok after 3rd bad beat. I took a day off after 12th bad beat. But when i returned and got 6 more - i felt myself almost vomiting :eek:

Can anyone explain me, how on earth can one lose that many times in a row? WAY too many, for me at least.

Now i feel like if i tried playing a few more SNGs i would certainly end some more bucks down. No matter how good i tried. Such a waste of time.. Even if it got all ok with "the luck" from now on, i would need at least a week of my normal play at $3.3 SNGs to get it all back. So it would be a total of 2 weeks of wasted time for nothing. I should have watched tv better. And i do not want to climb the stakes to chase my losses - that would be even worse. And the other thing, i do not believe that "bad luck" will get lost off me anymore :D

It's kinda funny and annoying at the same time. Guess, i'll take a week off poker now and then start it all again from $1.1 SNGs.

How do you deal with these several-days-long loosing streaks? Is there anything one can change in its game (something like tightening up, or whatever) to make it easier? Or is it the only way to take it as if "nothing happened" and continue playing your best game (seems impossible right now) even if it was 200 SNGs in a row without ITM?
 
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nick1611

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ive been on an unlucky run for around 2 weeks to a month. some of your things like the AA losing to JJ didnt sound too bad. just today ive played around 8 sit n gos, 3 times ive lost all in on the flop to runner runner straights, i lost with QQ to Q2, ive twice had the second nuts against the nuts. and then one time i won and the other came second
 
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ph_il

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Welcome to the Forums.

Well, first I would like to say that I admire the way you take bad beats and your losses. It shows that you have class and understand that losing is a part of the game, it can happen to anyone, and it will happen.

I've been where you are. I've lost 25 SnGs in row once and the majority of it was on the bubble. Being so close to placing ITM/winning and then I have it taken away from me. Losing sucks. I can take a loss here and a loss there, but when its constant it can really take a toll on your poker emotions; as well as do damage to your BR.

There is nothing you can do about losing to bad beats. It'll happen to all of us, no matter how well we are playing and/or how many correct decisions we make. As long as you are playing smart and making the correct [mathematical] decisions, in the long run you should come out on top. Keep in mind that you'll probably play many, many more SnGs. So, lets say you've lost 18 out of 25 SNGs. That probably isnt what you are looking for when it comes to keeping an SNG record, but when you've played hundreds or even thousands of SNGs, these losses should only be a small percentage of total losses. I might have 25 losses in a row now, but I could potentially have many more ITM finishes and overall wins in the long run.Something I like to keep in mind.

So, what to do when you're on a losing streak? I cant really say I like to take breaks from playing online. Instead, if Im on a losing streak, I'll limit myself to a certain number of games a day for as long as that streak continues. So, I'll play an SnG in the morning and if I lose that, I'll play again the afternoon. Then in the evening. This way I can keep a clear head and play my best game at all times. Before, if Im sitting on a losing streak and Im constantly losing, I sometimes get a bit frustrated and I so desperately want to make up for my losses. So, to avoid any temptation to play at a higher limit just to break even (if I win) I'll limit the number of games I play.

Just a suggestion; it might something you could try. If you feel taking a break is best, then do so.

I notice that you are willing to drop down a level and build your SnG bankroll back up. That shows you plan on following proper BRM, so good on you.
Just keep playing your A-game and this losing streak will pass. And believe me, when this happens you'll probably have your personal 'RainKhan' moment.

Good Luck at virtual tables.
 
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DaFrench1

DaFrench1

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Possible Tilt?

I went through a similiar thing a while back when I was starting my BR. I got myself up to $180 through sit & gos. Everything seemed so easy, I didn't feel I could lose. Then I started getting greedy wanting to build my BR quicker. I started multi-tabling, having 3 S&G's running at the same time to make money quicker! making rasher decisions because I was impatient in trying to get my stack up. Needless to say it was a nightmare and I went on a horrid run down to less than $100. It was only when I took a step back that I realised how stupid I was being and since then its been back to the patient grind and the BR is only heading in the right direction. Sometimes you need to check yourself. You know you can play, but you know that when you were trying to build your BR at first you were concentrated and focused. Thats what you need to get back. The moral of the story is that there's no short cuts in poker.
 
4Aces

4Aces

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I was having the same problem yesterday. I played 8 $3 6 max sng's (top 2 are paid) and finished 3rd ALL 7 TIMES!!! I felt like giving them up completely then BANG i won the next 3 in a row. It was a huge confidence boost and i think that's what you need.
 
tomix

tomix

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Thanks for your replies. I like the idea of limiting the number of games to play a day. It sounds like something in between taking a break while still playing some poker to keep your skills sharp. I guess, i'll try it.

So, i woke up 4am today, made myself a cup coffee and joined $1.1 sit'n'go. It all started not so bad, except for i had no cards to play until the 4th level of blinds (75/150), when i got A-Qo in the late possition. Raised it to 450 (almost 30% of my stack) after everyone folded to me. The only caller i got was BB. Flop comes some trash like 2-3-7 rainbow and BB pushes. Don't tell me i was to fold, because I KNEW at the moment he had nothing! (some 5 years of playing poker and a couple of recent weeks spent at those SNGs gives me the ability to read these villains). To be honest i was 80% sure he's holding A-8 to A-J, but i was wrong when he showed K-5s. Very well, i think for a moment, A-Q vs K-5 on empty flop is 76/24 favorite, when the turn shows 5, no 4/A/Q on the river, and i'm out in 6th place instead of becoming chip leader.

As philthy said, it's ok to have a loss here and there, and 76/24 is not a terrible thing to lose at all, but i don't get how is it possible to lose all the time.. Even if one pushed allin each and every hand dealt he should finish ITM some 10% of the time (3 out of 10 paid), i guess. I cannot achieve this playing pretty solid poker.

Maybe i should sacrifice something to poker gods? lol :D Will burn a deck of cards today, lmao
 
tomix

tomix

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Well, played a total of 3 SNGs today during 8 hours :) Proud of it, lost 3 buyins only LOL

I feel like losing my confidence. The only thing to keep me going is sitngo wizard (software). I do review all my lost games twice just to see every push/fold decision was made correctly. I lost one tournament today after a guy limped from LP, SB called and i pushed from BB holding J-J (had 8 blinds left). LP called and showed Q-Q, SB folded. I lost my jacks to queens and the first thought was i should have not pushed, but when i open sitngo wizard it says that push was correct. Finished 7th.

Anyways, i play post-flop way better than i do pre-flop (rare case in low limits). I cannot remember a hand when i was underdog after going allin post-flop (it may have only been if 2-3 opponents went allin before me when i had some 35% chance to draw the absolute nuts). I can make a feeler bet and say goodbye to it after a reraise, but these bets never make a significant amount of my stack, and more often than not i win those small pots. Like in 4 out of 5 SNGs i do accumulate at least 2.5K in chips (1500 starting), without going allin, before the level 4-5 when everyone's M is below 10 and the allin fiesta begins. Even then i make 95+% correct decisions about push/fold, but there is not a single tournament i can place ITM. It makes me go crazy!

Got myself a bottle of brandy, waiting for a friend now :) Off for a day.

I'd love to say "poker s*cks" LOL Hope I'll read this one evening after wining wsop and laugh at myself LMAO
 
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ph_il

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Well, played a total of 3 SNGs today during 8 hours :) Proud of it, lost 3 buyins only LOL

I feel like losing my confidence. The only thing to keep me going is sitngo wizard (software). I do review all my lost games twice just to see every push/fold decision was made correctly. I lost one tournament today after a guy limped from LP, SB called and i pushed from BB holding J-J (had 8 blinds left). LP called and showed Q-Q, SB folded. I lost my jacks to queens and the first thought was i should have not pushed, but when i open sitngo wizard it says that push was correct. Finished 7th.

Anyways, i play post-flop way better than i do pre-flop (rare case in low limits). I cannot remember a hand when i was underdog after going allin post-flop (it may have only been if 2-3 opponents went allin before me when i had some 35% chance to draw the absolute nuts). I can make a feeler bet and say goodbye to it after a reraise, but these bets never make a significant amount of my stack, and more often than not i win those small pots. Like in 4 out of 5 SNGs i do accumulate at least 2.5K in chips (1500 starting), without going allin, before the level 4-5 when everyone's M is below 10 and the allin fiesta begins. Even then i make 95+% correct decisions about push/fold, but there is not a single tournament i can place ITM. It makes me go crazy!

Got myself a bottle of brandy, waiting for a friend now :) Off for a day.

I'd love to say "poker s*cks" LOL Hope I'll read this one evening after wining WSOP and laugh at myself LMAO

How many people are left when you bust out? You say when everyones M is below 10, the All Ins begin. Do you find yourself calling all ins because you have a big stack? What hands are you calling with?

I know your goal is to win, but if you're that desperate to make it in the money why not try sneaking into the money? Let the small stacks bust each other and just move up the ranks. You making good decisions 95% of the time and thats great. You cant fault your play, just your [bad] luck. I'd honestly try and to sneak in the money. Thats not the main goal, but at least in knowing that I can end the streak and actually place might be a confidence booster.

It doesnt sound like you're playing scared because you're afraid you might lose again, so thats good.
 
tomix

tomix

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I *rarely* CALL all-in. Unless i am sure i have the best hand or i am extremely desperate to double up.

So we start the SNG where e1 has 1500 chips. The time comes when there are left 5 players with almost even stacks of 2500-4000 and the blinds are
200/400. This is when i start pushing my average stack against average stacks on every +EV opportunity i get.

I could just sit back and fold until 3rd place, but i do not see any reason for getting ITM with 1.5BB or less - this is a dead end.

The problem is it doesn't really matters what stage of the game is. I just lost too many all-ins while being favourite (including a few miracles like AA vs. Qx lost after going allin on a flop A-Q-x. No need to say two runner queens came.).

I'm not playing scared. Instead i tried loosening a bit and taking more marginal edges like positive side of a coin flip, or even a negative side if there was something in the pot already just to play more hands for "the luck" to even out quicker. At least i thought it was supposed to :) Please note, i did not make any stupid moves, it was all +EV except for a smaller edge (i have dramatically improved my opp. reading skills recently and i am sure where i am at the hand most of the time).

All said, if i take 60/40 situation 20 times in a row - i cannot win a single. That's simple :) It was supposed to be a post more about preventing tilt and managing BR than playing a game. You know how it is when you start losing confidence and something inside of you says "change the way you play, change the way you play", though your game is good and the losses are just because of (bad) luck.

Thanks for your replies. The best part was to hear ppl saying "i have had a streak of 25 SNGs without ITM too" :D
 
vanquish

vanquish

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Sorry, posts are getting kind of long, so I'll try to give a bit of general advice.
If you are getting your money in ahead, you are +cEV. If you are +cEV, you will earn money in the long run in those SNGs. Have room to maneuver with your BR, and you will see long term rewards.
GL.
V
 
111-THEMAD-111

111-THEMAD-111

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I've been giving this a lot of thought. With the limited information that you have given it seems to me that you are rushing your play. When you first built your bank roll you were playing MTT's. You made money. You switched to SNG's and started losing money. Remember how you played when you made the final table? That's how you should play SNG's.
Just a thought...............
 
vanquish

vanquish

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Also you're from Lithuania, which means everything is going to be just fine. :)
 
tomix

tomix

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Cannot get your point about Lithuania :D

I played some $1.1 SNGs and made a little profit. I also already had some luck with $3.3s so i'm about breaking even right now. At last. If i had the luck of $1.1 at the $3.3 tables (it was not that big of a difference of opposition, just a luck factor) and vice versa, i would have made a nice profit already.

I still have that feeling of being unlucky with the cards, but as far as my BR is recovering it's all ok :)
 
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