Continuation Bets In Low Limit SitnGos

gahdoh

gahdoh

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Looking for opinions here. Does anyone feel this type of play is even worth it in 5-10 dollar buy in games? It seems that every time I make this move somebody comes way over the top of me all in.

Take this scenario:

Blinds: 50/100

Hero: 2500 chips LP
Villain: 1800 chips MP

Hole cards dealt: Ac, Jc

Folded to Villain
Villain Calls $100
Hero Raises to $300
Folded back around to Villain who calls $200

Flop comes Ts, 8h, 2c.

Villain checks. Fairly weak here.
Hero Raises to $350. About half the pot (maybe this is what I'm doing wrong).
Villain Re-Raises All-in.

Now this appears to be a perfect flop for a continuation bet. However, in almost every Sit'n'Go I play I get re-raised all in after a bet between 300-400.

The hands I've seen this done with range from utter rags who suck out on me like 96o to a very low pair like pocket 3's or 4's.

Since there are so many donks in this bracket should I even consider making this play? Maybe I'm missing something... :confused:

Edit: oops, meant to put this under poker strategies forum.
 
Stefanicov

Stefanicov

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:cool: What stakes are we talking here low stakes or micro stakes i wouldnt continuation bet below 10 buy in at the minimum coz pple chase everything or call dwn bottom pr too much to make it profitable
 
Chiefer

Chiefer

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yeah that the problem with low stakes, nobody cares enough to play the game with any sort of seriousness. it was the right play. funny how it was AJ since that was the hand you had trouble with the other day. glad to see you raising with it.
 
Kenzie 96

Kenzie 96

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In the $5 & $10 buyins try playing tight early & watching how & what others are playing. By the time you get to $50/$100 blinds you should have some sort of read on remaining players. Would villian slowplay here or is he trying to steal. Just because a play doesn't work doesn't make it wrong & if villian put you on big cards check raising with top pair or anything for that matter isn't necessarily a donk play. At least in my case when I find myself complaining about the donks who are beating me it generally means I have developed some leaks in my game that need fixing. Oh & by the way I believe that there is a Federal Law prohibiting anyone who lives in San Diego from complaining about anything. Anything bad that happens is just payback for all that beautiful weather & scenery. :rolleyes: :D
 
shinedown.45

shinedown.45

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In the $5 & $10 buyins try playing tight early & watching how & what others are playing. By the time you get to $50/$100 blinds you should have some sort of read on remaining players. Would villian slowplay here or is he trying to steal. Just because a play doesn't work doesn't make it wrong & if villian put you on big cards check raising with top pair or anything for that matter isn't necessarily a donk play. At least in my case when I find myself complaining about the donks who are beating me it generally means I have developed some leaks in my game that need fixing. Oh & by the way I believe that there is a Federal Law prohibiting anyone who lives in San Diego from complaining about anything. Anything bad that happens is just payback for all that beautiful weather & scenery. :rolleyes: :D
^^^THIS^^^
Kenzie is right here, you have to play fairly tight early on in order to get some reads on other players.
 
aliengenius

aliengenius

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I never have had any problem (people playing back at me) with making continuation bets in $5 and $10 SNGs.

I guess the question is, do you bet the whole pot when you make your hand, and only half when you miss? Is this a specific read/betting patter tell that you are giving off? Would betting 2/3 or 3/4 of the pot be any better?

I think it is a serious error not to make a continuation bet in most cases, especially against only one other person in the pot.
 
A

alan1983

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Since when are 5 and 10$ buyins too low for playing poker. Ive rarely encountered any outrageous plays at these limits.

Btw if villain figures u didnt hit flop, then hes right to make a move whatever hes holding. Specially when blings are that big. Not that easy to fold when blinds are getting up and u have 1/3 of ur stack in there. I dont see how it makes them donks.

PLenty of c-bets work and others dont.
 
Stefanicov

Stefanicov

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Since when are 5 and 10$ buyins too low for playing poker. Ive rarely encountered any outrageous plays at these limits.

Btw if villain figures u didnt hit flop, then hes right to make a move whatever hes holding. Specially when blings are that big. Not that easy to fold when blinds are getting up and u have 1/3 of ur stack in there. I dont see how it makes them donks.

PLenty of c-bets work and others dont.

How long u played there soooooo many times ive been called down by overcrds and ive bet so much tht although i know they hit a miracle i cant fold as am pot commited. No one pays any attention to pot odds there they only play their own crds which can be profitable but also can ruin your game.
 
B

bw07507

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I continuation bet almost ever time I raise preflop and am against only one villain after the flop at 5/6/10 dollar tournaments. I am a very tight player preflop so if anyone is watching closely they put me on a nice pair. The only time I do not C-bet is if the board is 3 suited cards or if I know the player is a habitual check raiser. Just monitor others at your table to get a read on them, then you should be able to c-bet when the time is right or check when you think it is best. But I love c-betting and will continue to do it, as long as it is checked to me or i am first to act. I love putting pressure on others and if I get reraised and I dont have top pair or over pair, oh well, I get out of the hand and look for another spot to win chips.
 
hott_estelle

hott_estelle

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I don't mind the continuation bet there. I would make the same play, if I thought the other player was weak, which you did. I make that play about 75% of the time, if it is checked to me with that chip stack into that pot.
 
ChuckTs

ChuckTs

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This all depends on the type of player you're c-betting against.

If we're betting against someone who is willing to stick his or her whole stack in with bottom pair if they think they can get us to fold, you're making the wrong play throwing out a c-bet. If it's someone who doesn't put any chips in without the nuts, then obviously it's a much better play.

I don't think the stakes matter much if you're picking your targets properly.
 
J

joeeagles

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Almost every time I reply to a thread, I make clear that I'm not an expert. I'm doing the same here since my opinion on the subject of c-bets is likely different than most other members. I firmly believe that there is no absolute "right way to play a hand" in poker because of variables such as table conditions, stack size etc.

A c-bet in the circumstance described here, the early stages of a tourney, is more often wrong than right. That mostly because it will make you lose control of the size of the pot. Lets look at it closely. Your stack is 2500, villain's is 1800 and blinds are 50/100. Your PR was 300, SB and BB fold, villain calls from MP after previously limping, so pot is 750. Your stack is now 2200, villain's is 1500. Flop is T high and he checks. Lets look at how a c-bet here will effect the rest of this hand even if villain just merely calls your bet, leave alone if he raises it all-in (c-bets are vulnerable to check-raise lovers, another reason to be careful). You bet 350 and he calls. Pot is now 1450, your stack is now 1850, villain's stack is now 1150, which is smaller than the pot. IMO, having lost control of the pot size when all you have is A-high, is a terrible mistake that whoever thinks that c-betting is always right should think about. Even if you might have the best hand up to the flop, villain will likely get into a shoot out in which he might outdraw you, that because the pot is too big for him to fold anymore, or, maybe, he hit 2nd pair with a hand like A8 on the flop that you described, and is afraid to lead out but will call you till the end.

In your specific case if I were villain and my hand was 55 I would very well play it the same way he did, since a flop like T-8-2 is likely to have missed you and your bet does appear to be a c-bet.

Now, I do realize that if you, also, check the flop he might very well draw you out anyway or it may expose you to having him bet the turn, if its a blank, before you can, but at least you accomplish keeping the pot small which will help you make a better decision on the later streets. Keep in mind that, at times, folding is the best thing in this stage of a tourney if all you have is A-high, even if you remotely think you might have the best hand.

In the later stages of a tourney when your stack/blind ratio is higher a c-bet is often correct, just as it probably is in cash games.

Otherwise, as Chuck already pointed out, the only time a c-bet in that spot is correct is when you are almost sure that it will make your opponent fold, whatever bet size that takes. If not, you failed in controlling pot size with a marginal holding which is a critical mistake and could easily cost you the tourney.
 
Shoestringx

Shoestringx

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Another thing to keep in mind is that a lot of players with limited experience tend to overplay certain hands and try to make strong plays with them. The two plays that happen more often at low limits then I would ever do is the check raise and slow playing.

There are a lot of players that if they hit top pair, regardless of kicker and are first to act, they will check a lot to induce a bet that they can check raise. They see it on TV, it works and seems like the coolest thing to do. The check raise is one of the first plays that new players learn.

Slowplaying a "big hand" is usually the second play that they learn. TPTK is normally a good enough hand to be considered a monster and slow played. But occaisionally the person doing the slow play can't resist the allure of the all in bet once you have made a bet.

Of course it is also possible that it is just a crazy bluff that you see a lot at lower limits. The only bet that gets any respect (often times) is the all in bet.

Now all I play is low limit poker (or micro limit) and I would recommend using your c-bets a little less liberally. I personally like to get a read on my opponents before trying to c-bet them. Now it is possible that I am missing some value in the early part of SnG's and MTT but I perfer having a few less chips then being put to a decision for all my chips with nothing more than high card or a bottom/middle pair. This makes for a difficult decision, and the less difficult decisions that you have to make the more success you are likely to have.
 
T

tykerr

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Anyone know why you can't deposit into tiger gaming?
 
aliengenius

aliengenius

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Anyone know why you can't deposit into tiger gaming?

I know but I'm not telling..

Making a continuation bet is forcing your opponent to hit the flop, i.e., to play their cards only.

Things to consider:
1. Do not to become predictable by only betting when you have a hand, or only betting a certain amount (1/2 pot) when you miss and a different amount when you hit.

2. Be aware of the number of opponents in the pot with you.
I almost always make a cont bet against one opponent. There is just too much of a chance that they missed and will fold. Against two opponents, I tend toward it as well, especially with position.
Remember, the more people in the pot, the more cards out against you, and the more likely the flop helped someone (that's why omaha where you get four cards each is a game of the nuts).

3. Consider the you table image. Does everyone view you as a rock, or a LAG, or...? What hands have you shown down? Even the most donkish of opponent will start to become aware that you are only showing monsters, or that you are playing very tight. If you have the opposite image, you need to exploit it by getting paid off on your monsters, and also by your opponents fearing that you hit on a ragged or low flop.

4. Texture of the flop. How coordinated is it, how likely is it to have helped your opponent given what you have seen his range of hands to be. If he is very tight you can put him on a narrow range of hands, and thus a narrow range of flops that may have helped him.

5. Sophistication and nature of your opponent. How likely are they to make a play at you? Are they habitual check raisers, or do they like to bet out with a made hand?

Anyway, I would say that becoming predictable with your betting pattern on the cont bet is number one.

If you are interested, Phil Laak tries to explain the math behind why we cont bet in this terribly produced DVD.
 
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