Cash Game Hand Range Analysis...

Jagsti

Jagsti

I'm sweet enough!
Joined
Feb 18, 2007
Total posts
5,478
Ok, this is probably my biggest leak, weakness call it what you will. I really struggle to put my opponents on a range of hands. I need to escape form my level of thinking (looking at my cards and thinking there best all the way to the river!).

I would like to ask you cash game players how you put your villains on a range of hands, what thought processes your using, how you close that range down with each street of betting. It's something I need to get to grips with because at the moment I'm at a winrate of 3.4PTBB/100 over a fairly decent sample, but I would dearly love to achieve around 5PTBB/100.

Maybe we could use this thread to analyse some HH's of each other and sort of coach each other. If this should be posted in the Ring Game analysis, mods please move. Thx.
 
B

bustme

Rock Star
Joined
Nov 5, 2007
Total posts
270
I put my opponents on hands after theire bet size.

Donks and calling stations I do not put on hands.
 
ChuckTs

ChuckTs

Legend
Joined
Feb 2, 2005
Total posts
13,642
There are two parts to playing a hand successfully: pinning your opponent on a range of hands, and picking the line that yields the highest positive EV in the long run (metagame included).

The former is one you learn to do with experience, the latter is one that can be taught.

So basically, it's something that comes with experience. You can use PT to actually pin players on rough ranges - ie a 30/20/3 who opens in MP most likely has a range that resembles the top %20 of starting hands, or {66+,A4s+,K8s+,Q9s+,J9s+,T9s,A9o+,KTo+,QTo+,JTo} according to pokerstove, but that's rough and probably not completely accurate. Like villain might be more inclined to get involved with hands like 97s than A5s for example.

With experience you can narrow your opponents' ranges further based on certain tells, betting patterns, or just feel.
 
T

TheDoc

Enthusiast
Joined
Aug 7, 2007
Total posts
84
Its tricky to be sure. I'm no expert at it, but the best thing to do is start trying. Guess what people are holding when you are not in a hand. Lots of factors to take into account, player past history, betting patterns, whats on the board, hunches, etc. After a while, you start getting a few, and wow - its magic ;-)
 
Jagsti

Jagsti

I'm sweet enough!
Joined
Feb 18, 2007
Total posts
5,478
OK check this out tell me your thoughts what holdings are likely for villain pf and on flop.

Villain (pgadunes) is 58/8 over very small sample and no reads, I have only been at the table a very short time. My thinking here is he's limped on button, then called my raise. PF im thinking he could have any PP, Broadways, Axs, some suited cons.

Flop is very interesting, he check raises all in. What on gods earth could he do this with? Briefly I pause to piece the evidence together, I doubt he does this with a set as he would surely value bet. Its not a particularly drawy board, I think it's leaning towards an overcard semi bluff or I have misjudged his donk bet and he has a set?

Anyone care to elaborate?

***** Game number #14793781054 *****
HOLD'EM NO LIMIT ($0.25/$0.50) - 2008/01/24 - 16:26:04 (ET)
Table 'Ahrensa' 6-max
Seat 5 (Neuspoeder) has the button.
pgadunes posts small blind [$0.25]
duke748 posts big blind [$0.50]
Seat 1 : Duke748 with $53.55.
Seat 2 : JdK87 with $98.50.
Seat 3 : MaxiLopez11 with $56.80.
Seat 4 : BigSlicRick with $26.00.
Seat 5 : Neuspoeder with $46.35.
Seat 6 : pgadunes with $94.35.
index.pl

index.pl

** Dealing hole cards **
Dealt to Duke748 :
as.gif
ac.gif

jdk87 calls [$0.50]
MaxiLopez11: folds
BigSlicRick: folds
Neuspoeder: folds
pgadunes calls [$0.25]
duke748 raises $2.25 to $2.75
jdk87 calls [$2.25]
pgadunes calls [$2.25]
** Dealing Flop ** [Potsize: $8.25]
3h.gif
9c.gif
4s.gif

pgadunes: checks
duke748 bets [$5.75]
JdK87: folds
pgadunes raises $85.85 to $91.60 [ all-in ]
duke748 calls [$45.05] [ all-in ]
** Dealing Turn ** [Potsize: $150.65]
6d.gif

[pgadunes] uh oh
** Dealing River ** [Potsize: $150.65]
9h.gif

** Showdown **
The results have been hidden.
 
ChuckTs

ChuckTs

Legend
Joined
Feb 2, 2005
Total posts
13,642
Well that's where his aggression factor and your history with him would really come in handy. Considering just his stats he could have a lot of hands on the flop, but we need to know how aggressively he'll play certain hands in order to really narrow his range down after the ch-raise all in.

Against these types of guys I don't think stacking here is a huge problem, but against smart player's you'd just be giving away too much in implied odds.
 
beardyian

beardyian

Scary Clown
Joined
Apr 3, 2005
Total posts
15,845
Awards
2
Watch the hands that you are not in as well, and try to figure out those hands as well for practice.

I always try to keep an eye on what hands are shown at any time as this will always help to find just what they are playing.
 
Munchrs

Munchrs

Legend
Joined
May 25, 2007
Total posts
1,935
Villian either has a set or something like TT/JJ. But without Aggression factor it is hard to tell. Still gotta call there IMO.
 
S

SHRK2TH

Rising Star
Joined
Jan 25, 2008
Total posts
11
wild guess

The guy thinks you are stealing from bb. Defends with 8-9s or 9-10s, because it is his favorite. has top pair. puts you on A-Q pushes to keep you out. sucks out the trips on the river How that for a great scenario................
 
Jagsti

Jagsti

I'm sweet enough!
Joined
Feb 18, 2007
Total posts
5,478
The guy thinks you are stealing from bb. Defends with 8-9s or 9-10s, because it is his favorite. has top pair. puts you on A-Q pushes to keep you out. sucks out the trips on the river How that for a great scenario................

LMFAO, You have to be my villain in this hand coz it's almost a perfect description. If it was you, nice suckout :D. K9 btw!
 
S

SHRK2TH

Rising Star
Joined
Jan 25, 2008
Total posts
11
nope not me

My biggest problem is thinking someone is f--king with me, so I can totally relate to this guy. I am a recovering donk however, Only occasionally fall of the wagon. haha
 
C

cambovenzi

Guest
Joined
Jan 28, 2008
Total posts
15
LMFAO, You have to be my villain in this hand coz it's almost a perfect description. If it was you, nice suckout :D. K9 btw!

hah. i put him on K9 too.
top pair. 2nd best kicker(figured he'd have a high kicker if he is playin a 9)(and you had the aces, so i figured he didnt have another)
 
C

cambovenzi

Guest
Joined
Jan 28, 2008
Total posts
15
and ofcourse there was probably a reason as to why he made the move.
he had top pair and wanted to take it down.
 
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