Bluffing and calling at the micros

[JonPoker]

Regarding raising and calling draws at the micros

Hey all
I'm relatively new to poker (1 month) and have been struggling to incorporate bluffs into my range. It seems impossible to get fish to fold when re-raise the flop/turn with draws. A lot of them will panic and jam all in against a re-raise with top pair shit kicker, which stops me from calling because I don't have the odds.

Bombing the river seems almost futile as I have been looked up plenty with tpshitkicker, second pair and even ace high lmao. Currently standing at 11bb/100 at 22k hands and I believe I would be higher if I didn't waste so many stacks trying to figure out how to incorporate bluffs.

Here's my question, I want to take the line of calling cbets as the pfc and doublebarelling as the pfr with combo draws, but giving up if I don't hit my draws. Re-raising the flop sometimes gives me a cheap river but a lot of the times the fish will panic and jam. So I might re raise the flop but not the turn, depending on the specific opponent. The regs are able to find the fold button more often.

And basically I'm planning to completely get rid of river bluffs from my range. I know it seems highly exploitable but you'd be surprised the number of times the stupid fish have called my river all ins with tpshitkicker, second pair and Ace high after I hit my draw. The bluffing does seem to add value to my value holdings but I don't know if it's enough to cover all the stacks I lose trying to bluff.

 

[JonPoker]

Ok this hand just happened and is what I was talking about. I cbet oop against the fish with a flush draw. He re-raises my cbet and I call, I've put the fish on top pair. On the turn I check to the fish and fish bets half pot.

At this point I know that if I re-raise fish, fish is going to jam all in and I won't have the odds to call. I predict I have the implied odds calling the fishes turn bet knowing if I hit my draw the fish will never be able to get away from top pair.

Since the board has flushed I know the passive fish will check back if I check to him on the river. So I donk all in on the river with the nut flush and he looks me up with tptk.

It feels extremely satisfying shoving on a fish with the nuts knowing he will never be able to get away from his top pair. So, at the micros calling draws seems to work because the fish is never folding if we hit our draw and jam.



PokerStars - $0.02 NL - Holdem - 9 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

UTG: 93 BB (VPIP: 16.18, PFR: 5.88, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 69)
Hero (UTG+1): 99.5 BB
MP: 116 BB (VPIP: 11.45, PFR: 8.41, 3Bet Preflop: 4.19, Hands: 433)
MP+1: 81.5 BB (VPIP: 23.53, PFR: 8.82, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 34)
MP+2: 85.5 BB (VPIP: 87.50, PFR: 12.50, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 8)
CO: 50.5 BB (VPIP: 27.66, PFR: 27.66, 3Bet Preflop: 29.41, Hands: 47)
BTN: 100 BB (VPIP: 14.55, PFR: 13.22, 3Bet Preflop: 4.58, Hands: 758)
SB: 100 BB (VPIP: 13.73, PFR: 8.27, 3Bet Preflop: 0.43, Hands: 577)
BB: 119.5 BB (VPIP: 14.93, PFR: 12.57, 3Bet Preflop: 3.94, Hands: 1,237)

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has 6♦ A♦

fold, Hero raises to 3 BB, fold, MP+1 calls 3 BB, fold, fold, fold, fold, fold

Flop: (7.5 BB, 2 players) Q♦ 2♥ 8♦
Hero bets 5.5 BB, MP+1 raises to 11 BB, Hero calls 5.5 BB

Turn: (29.5 BB, 2 players) 5♥
Hero checks, MP+1 bets 14.5 BB, Hero calls 14.5 BB

River: (58.5 BB, 2 players) K♦
Hero bets 71 BB and is all-in, MP+1 calls 53 BB and is all-in

[spoil]Hero shows 6♦ A♦ (Flush, Ace High)
(Pre 30%, Flop 36%, Turn 20%)
MP+1 shows Q♠ A♠ (One Pair, Queens)
(Pre 70%, Flop 64%, Turn 80%)
Hero wins 158.5 BB
[/spoil]

 

[5pAce_C0wb0y]

Hey all
I'm relatively new to poker (1 month) and have been struggling to incorporate bluffs into my range. It seems impossible to get fish to fold when re-raise the flop/turn with draws. A lot of them will panic and jam all in against a re-raise with top pair shit kicker, which stops me from calling because I don't have the odds.

Bombing the river seems almost futile as I have been looked up plenty with tpshitkicker, second pair and even ace high lmao. Currently standing at 11bb/100 at 22k hands and I believe I would be higher if I didn't waste so many stacks trying to figure out how to incorporate bluffs.

Here's my question, I want to take the line of calling cbets as the pfc and doublebarelling as the pfr with combo draws, but giving up if I don't hit my draws. Re-raising the flop sometimes gives me a cheap river but a lot of the times the fish will panic and jam. So I might re raise the flop but not the turn, depending on the specific opponent. The regs are able to find the fold button more often.

And basically I'm planning to completely get rid of river bluffs from my range. I know it seems highly exploitable but you'd be surprised the number of times the stupid fish have called my river all ins with tpshitkicker, second pair and Ace high after I hit my draw. The bluffing does seem to add value to my value holdings but I don't know if it's enough to cover all the stacks I lose trying to bluff.

I've found bluffing at micro stakes rarely works, to many players at this level who only have basic concept of the game and don't understand they could be beat.

 

[5pAce_C0wb0y]

Ok this hand just happened and is what I was talking about. I cbet oop against the fish with a flush draw. He re-raises my cbet and I call, I've put the fish on top pair. On the turn I check to the fish and fish bets half pot.

At this point I know that if I re-raise fish, fish is going to jam all in and I won't have the odds to call. I predict I have the implied odds calling the fishes turn bet knowing if I hit my draw the fish will never be able to get away from top pair.

Since the board has flushed I know the passive fish will check back if I check to him on the river. So I donk all in on the river with the nut flush and he looks me up with tptk.

It feels extremely satisfying shoving on a fish with the nuts knowing he will never be able to get away from his top pair. So, at the micros calling draws seems to work because the fish is never folding if we hit our draw and jam.



PokerStars - $0.02 NL - Holdem - 9 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

UTG: 93 BB (VPIP: 16.18, PFR: 5.88, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 69)
Hero (UTG+1): 99.5 BB
MP: 116 BB (VPIP: 11.45, PFR: 8.41, 3Bet Preflop: 4.19, Hands: 433)
MP+1: 81.5 BB (VPIP: 23.53, PFR: 8.82, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 34)
MP+2: 85.5 BB (VPIP: 87.50, PFR: 12.50, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 8)
CO: 50.5 BB (VPIP: 27.66, PFR: 27.66, 3Bet Preflop: 29.41, Hands: 47)
BTN: 100 BB (VPIP: 14.55, PFR: 13.22, 3Bet Preflop: 4.58, Hands: 758)
SB: 100 BB (VPIP: 13.73, PFR: 8.27, 3Bet Preflop: 0.43, Hands: 577)
BB: 119.5 BB (VPIP: 14.93, PFR: 12.57, 3Bet Preflop: 3.94, Hands: 1,237)

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has 6♦ A♦

fold, Hero raises to 3 BB, fold, MP+1 calls 3 BB, fold, fold, fold, fold, fold

Flop: (7.5 BB, 2 players) Q♦ 2♥ 8♦
Hero bets 5.5 BB, MP+1 raises to 11 BB, Hero calls 5.5 BB

Turn: (29.5 BB, 2 players) 5♥
Hero checks, MP+1 bets 14.5 BB, Hero calls 14.5 BB

River: (58.5 BB, 2 players) K♦
Hero bets 71 BB and is all-in, MP+1 calls 53 BB and is all-in

[spoil]Hero shows 6♦ A♦ (Flush, Ace High)
(Pre 30%, Flop 36%, Turn 20%)
MP+1 shows Q♠ A♠ (One Pair, Queens)
(Pre 70%, Flop 64%, Turn 80%)
Hero wins 158.5 BB
[/spoil]

After the turnyou were 4.1:1 to hit the flush but were getting pot odds of roughly 3;1. Play this scenario out 5 times you miss 4 times losing 112 bb if you fold when you miss and on the one that you hit you win 81.5 bb from your opponent. So overall not a profitable play in my opinion

 

[JonPoker]

After the turnyou were 4.1:1 to hit the flush but were getting pot odds of roughly 3;1. Play this scenario out 5 times you miss 4 times losing 112 bb if you fold when you miss and on the one that you hit you win 81.5 bb from your opponent. So overall not a profitable play in my opinion

I added villians remaining stack as implied odds. Based on the type of player villian was, I assumed he wouldn't be able to get off top pair.

My ace could also give me showdown value to check down if an ace appeared on the board because QJs, and KQs, even KQo and QJo was in his range.

I admit it was very thin value if at all when I calculated it (I use horatio). So it could have been a EV- line. I needed 14% based on implied odds and had roughly 18% (bit more if you count the Ace).

Thanks for the input.

 

[grumblbrumbl]

My observations tell me that microlimit in the early stages of the tournament, it is desirable to exclude from its line of bluffs. It is very difficult to make a bluff against a fish. They are often dragged a 2-3 pair to showdown. If you bluff, the only reasonable players. It is necessary to sit back and watch someone like plays. Against idiots is not bluffing, and against thinking players need to bluff your heart's content. I think so.

 

[JonPoker]

I added villians remaining stack as implied odds. Based on the type of player villian was, I assumed he wouldn't be able to get off top pair.

My ace could also give me showdown value to check down if an ace appeared on the board because QJs, and KQs, even KQo and QJo was in his range.

I admit it was very thin value if at all when I calculated it (I use horatio). So it could have been a EV- line. I needed 14% based on implied odds and had roughly 18% (bit more if you count the Ace).

Thanks for the input.

After reviewing a few more of my hands, imo I'm biased towards implied odds. Probably a leak of mine. This play was probably slightly EV-

I checked me suited connectors on pt4 and quite a few of them are posting a loss despite being at 22k hands 11bb/100. Lol I guess I'm a fish after all chasing implied odds

 

[NHequalsFU]

No need to really have huge bluffs in the micros. They rarely will get through or the risk is far greater than the reward. I mean the pot will be not big enough to bluff at.

Small bluffs are a real key at the micros. Betting a flop your opponent has shown weakness or stealing the blinds are pretty easy. Just don't get caught up. Once you are called just wave the white flag and surrender.

For the most part just focus on getting value off good hands in micros and avoiding coolers and you will be golden.:top:

 

[John A]

If you're just learning how to play, then focus on your value bets, sizing, and understanding your opponents range. Bluffing successfully comes with more experience and understanding your perceived range, the type of opponents and run outs to bluff on.

You can get a lot of good info if you invest $7 and pick up this course:
http://pokerzion.com/

 

[GreenDaddy1]

"It seems impossible to get fish to fold..."

That observation is the core of the problem here

Don't bluff at the micros. You could never bluff at the micros and beat them as well or probably better than if you were trying to throw in some bluffs.

Do SEMI BLUFF though. It is an important difference between the two. Many players at the micros are giving you zero respect and are only playing their own cards without enough thought for anyone else's range. They are also often very passive and call far too often, all the way to the river. You need to use this to your advantage rather than your detriment. They will often fail to notice the board contains straight or flush possibilities, or discount other dangers, and keep calling off to showdown with a weak made hand (eg middle pair or top pair weak kicker) or a calling on a draw regardless of the equity/pot odds. Another common micro player is the nit who only ever joins the action when they have something. Bluffing both these player types is not going to happen often enough for it to be profitable.

Take extra care in multi ways pots, even harder to get more than 1 of these players to fold.

You want your semi bluffs to have equity, ie a reasonable chance of improving to something better. Overcards and gut shot straight draws can be worth firing one barrel vs one opponent. Open ended straight draws and flush draws are quite reasonable to stab at, even to double barrel depending on the situation (some fish won’t fold to a single raise or c bet, but will when faced with a double barrel). You can get even more aggressive when you are drawing to 12+ outs, eg maybe you have a flush and a straight draw. Remember to count your outs, and use that info to help you make decisions about betting and calling. Get familiar with it and then keep it simple as you can. Loosely, I consider 4 to 7 outs as pretty weak, 8 to 11 as good and 12+ as being strong.

Trying to bluff on the river with junk / missed draws is a fool's errand at the micros. Very occasionally I might try one if a great scare card has come down on the river (eg perhaps something that completes a flush draw). Would not advise it as a regular play though.

Semi bluffing is a subject worth doing some reading on, to expand upon my pretty basic summary with more precise and studied info. Pot odds & equity are also essential reading that tie into why semi bluffing works where stone cold bluffing fails. I found I became much better at the micros once I had a basic grasp of these concepts.

Key to the micros is keeping it simple and remembering that what you are doing is trying to exploit the poor play of your opponents, identifying and isolating the worst of the worst to make all your money from them while avoiding the players who are more capable. You don't need to be tricky or over think things, you just need to be better than the average population.

 

[mkd33]

I've found bluffing at micro stakes rarely works, to many players at this level who only have basic concept of the game and don't understand they could be beat.

I agree. A bluff only works if your opponent sees a potential draw and then recognises you may have the hand to suit the draw.

It is quite common for people at the micro to call silly amounts with hands like T4o and then get lucky on the flop. It is also very hard at micro stakes to actually put people on a hand due to the inconsistency of their hands.

Keep working at it and keep play tight and aggressive to overcome micro stakes. I am almost there now but it took a lot of practice to not play hands like the pros do on tv!

MK