- Feb 2, 2005
- Total posts
There have been a few HA threads relating to big pairs and a member (who's name I won't disclose since he sent me a PM about this, and I can only assume that he wants a PM to stay private) PM'ed me about it:
and I responded:Chuck,
Hope you don't mind me sending this but I am a bit confused.
The other week a thread was started about Aces being cracked. It transpired the author had only raised 3xBB, got a caller and got sucked out on the turn when the other guy made a flush/straight. (Cannot remember the full specifics).
I queried the raise of only 3xBB and was crucified (not by you), the reason being you want to encourage action when sitting with AA.
I have always read on CC that you protect your hand and make the other players pay.
Now on Estelles pocket KK's against a maniac thread you say raise way more pre-flop. She has already gone in 10xBB, 4XBB more than the original raiser.
This has confused me after the thread on pocket AA's
Is it the fact that this is a cash game and not a tourney anything or am I failing to see the point here.
Thanks in advance for your help
Anybody got any comments/thoughts on the subject? I know it's a big toughy for a lot of players who mention that they 'dread' seeing AA or KK or whatever.So basically you're asking "do we want to make inviting bets or not PF"?
The absolute worst thing to do with big pairs is to let someone see a cheap flop.
Ideally with big pairs, we want to get as much money in PF when we know we're either ahead of our opponents range or just plain crushing them (ie with AA). We'd also like to get the hand HU if possible, or at least down to 2 players since as more players are seeing a flop vs your aces, the bigger the chance of one of them outflopping you.
There are some significant differences between the two hands you're talking about. In the original one, I'm assuming that the player open raised. Open raising 3 or 4 BBs is fine as you do want action; raising to 10 or some irregular number of BBs will often just scare people off since you're telegraphing your hand's strength by the size of your bet. By opening with 3BBs, we give the next potential caller 1.5:1 pot odds which is more than small enough to make any call 'incorrect'.
[k...you got me rambling now ]
In Estelle's hand, there were two people who had already showed interest in the pot, and we can make a bigger raise to get the most out of our KK as possible. Her raise gave her opponents 3.25:1, wayyyy to good for KK. We need to raise it up enough that we give them ~2:1 or worse. Don't look at her raise as '10 BBs', but rather that she raised less than 3X what the previous raise was. Even if she was HU, she'd still be giving the original raiser 2.6:1 pot odds, still too inviting.
Anyways, in short it's all situational. If noone's shown interest, then a 3BB bet is fine [early in a tournament when people are willing to call millionBB bets, of course it's different]. If several people have shown interest and there's a lot of money in the pot, then we need to raise a lot more.
Hope that rant helped you in some way...if not then just post in the poker strategies section and we can get other people's opinions.