Ask Gripsed Anything About Cash Games

Evan Jarvis

Evan Jarvis

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Hello Gripsed,

I have been playing tournys, but now want to play cash games aswell.
Now cash games is way more following pod odds as tourny is ( at least thats wat i think, Please correct me if i am wrong)
Just played my first cash game $0,02-$0,05 6max table with 5 players on it.
I had a hand 9Q'sD in button.
Lojack raises to 3,4BB, Highjack folds, i call, SB folds and BB also calls.
Flop comes as 97j'sH, BB checks, Lojack checks and i check too.
Turn is 9S BB checks, Lojack bets 3BB pot was then 13,2BB.
I calculated my pot odds as followed: 13,2BB + my call 3BB, so total pot was 16,3BB
Then did 3/16,3=0,1840*100=18,40% pot odds. Did i calculate this correctly ?
Now for my outs it was: 1x9, 3x7, 3xJ and 3xQ witch gives me 10 outs. 10*2=20% on my outs. So card odss are 20% and pot odds are 18,40%, when card odds are higher the the pot odds i should call right ?
To finish the hand, i called, BB also called. Then river card was Qc.
BB checks, Lojack checks and i made a bet of 6BB as i had the nuts. The BB called and Lojack folled. BB had AQ'o, I won the hand.

Played only 6 hand and made $1,50 with it.

Edit: in the post above mine, you say:
This is one where working on your math skills will help, kumon has great programs for this

Do you maybe have a link for the programs ?

Greeting


This is the link for Kumon math (although I'm not sure if they are international)
https://www.kumon.com/ca-en/?gclid=...5YL4XEkExtOpuix80moaArmuEALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds

But some of the best free online school stuff I've used for this kind of learning is Khan Academy. You can get a ton out of going thru their classes and they cover almost every grade in school!

https://www.khanacademy.org/math
 
Evan Jarvis

Evan Jarvis

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In some of your training videos you have mentioned that KK typically is worth 5BB, is there a list of what the typical preflop hands value is or is this something from analysing your own database? If so could could you make the information available?


Alex Fitzgerald is the man who has those database stats.
I host some of his videos on my channel (here's the link to all the playlists)

https://www.youtube.com/c/gripsed/playlists?view=50&sort=dd&shelf_id=8

But I don't have those database stats. So i can't make that info available unfortunately.
 
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LetterRip

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Whoops, sorry not sure why I confused the two of you. My apologies.
 
Evan Jarvis

Evan Jarvis

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Whoops, sorry not sure why I confused the two of you. My apologies.


It's probable because we uploaded quite a few of his videos to my youtube channel during a campaign we were doing.

I'm a huge fan of his work, he's taught me a ton about the game (even if his still can be a bit brash at time)

cheers!
 
coolDadJimbo

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hey evan

i'm a big fan of your videos (and john little and alex's stuff. i'm reading one of alex's books right now). not only are you a good poker player, but a great teacher.

one of your presentations i've watched a few times lately is on c-betting. in the video you show a chart for the 'golden ratio' and how to use it to determine betsizing related to a value:bluff ratio and how often a bluff needs to work

i think i get part of it, but having a hard time creating examples of how to use it in my head

could you maybe try to explain it again?

thanks for being so generous enough to answer questions! its awesome
 
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stil370

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Hi Evan,

My name is Rich and I just wanted to thank you for the things that you do to contribute to both the growth of cc and the poker community as a whole
 
Evan Jarvis

Evan Jarvis

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$2650 Venom Ticket Giveaway

Hey Friends!

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I want the CC community to have a shot at it, so here's the info.

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When: Today and Tomorrow (all day)
Where: http://twitch.tv/gripsed
How: Type !PLAY in chat to join a race

Steps
1) Win a Race = win a raffle ticket (can win multiple tickets)
2) Win the Raffle = win a seat to private SNG (24 seats cap)
3) Win the SNG = Win a $2650 Venom Ticket!

That's it, completely free to play. and the more races you play, the better your odds to win.
Hope to see you on Twitch, i'll be live all day for the next 2 days for this giveaway!

GRIPSED TWITTER 1
 
Evan Jarvis

Evan Jarvis

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Hi Evan,

My name is Rich and I just wanted to thank you for the things that you do to contribute to both the growth of cc and the poker community as a whole


Thank you Rich, I really appreciate the kind words!
 
Evan Jarvis

Evan Jarvis

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hey evan

i'm a big fan of your videos (and john little and alex's stuff. i'm reading one of alex's books right now). not only are you a good poker player, but a great teacher.

one of your presentations i've watched a few times lately is on c-betting. in the video you show a chart for the 'golden ratio' and how to use it to determine betsizing related to a value:bluff ratio and how often a bluff needs to work

i think i get part of it, but having a hard time creating examples of how to use it in my head

could you maybe try to explain it again?

thanks for being so generous enough to answer questions! its awesome


Hey Jimbo,

This is a concept from game theory, and if I'm being completely honest I have some difficulty with it as well.

The idea is like this though

Let's say a pot is $200
and we are going to choose one of 2 bet sizes

Bet size a = we bet $100

Bet size b = we bet $200.

Then we need to look at our opponents odds that we are offering them.

Example A:

Pot size = $200
Bet size = $100

Opponent's odds = $100 to win $300 (pot size + bet size)
they are getting 3:1 on a call

so in theory we would want to have 1 bluff for every 3 value hands.

That way when our opponent calls with a bluffcatcher (which needs to win 25% of the time to break event) they will be winning exactly 25% of the time.

Example B:


Pot size = $200
Bet size = $200

Opponent's odds = $200 to win $400 (pot size + bet size)
they are getting 2:1 on a call

so in theory we would want to have 1 bluff for every 2 value hands.

That way when our opponent calls with a bluffcatcher (which needs to win 33% of the time to break event) they will be winning exactly 33% of the time.

To do this in practice requires you to have a very good idea of what your entire range looks like and to balance out the combinations you use to make the play.

In theory it's a fantastic concept, but in practice it can be rather difficult to implement since you don't have all of the combinations in front of you to choose from.

Mastering this concept may be something that would enable be to compete at higher levels of poker, but it's not something that I actively use in practice if I'm being completely honest.

Hope that helps
 
Evan Jarvis

Evan Jarvis

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I Just Published My First Book Ever

Mastering Small Stakes Cash Games is now available at both Amazon and D&B
Learn more about it here --> http://gripsed.com/book

Masterinpic


It's in large part thanks to this thread that I had a good idea of what material was essential to include in this book and what was less important.

I'm really really really excited about having a real, hardcover, 360 page book out there.
And this thread seemed like the most appropriate place to share the news!

If you have any feedback after reading thru it please send me a message.
At this point all I wanna do is hear from people who have read it, and make it even better.

Thank you Cardschat community, I never could've accomplished this without you!
 
ScooperNova

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I've been a Cardschat member for years and I've recently been watching some poker streamers on twitch, including you. I enjoy your stream and I think of you as the Larry King of poker streaming lol, I think it's your smooth delivery. I had no idea you were a Cardschat member as well. I've seen this thread in the past and been aware of you on here but I just had never put two and two together I guess. Thank you for your contributions here and to the poker community at large. I'm TyTwhyTs on twitch, I'll see ya there!
 
Evan Jarvis

Evan Jarvis

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I've been a Cardschat member for years and I've recently been watching some poker streamers on twitch, including you. I enjoy your stream and I think of you as the Larry King of poker streaming lol, I think it's your smooth delivery. I had no idea you were a Cardschat member as well. I've seen this thread in the past and been aware of you on here but I just had never put two and two together I guess. Thank you for your contributions here and to the poker community at large. I'm TyTwhyTs on twitch, I'll see ya there!


Thank you SO Much ScooperNova!!!

I'm doing everything I can to get the production quality of my stream to the top level, so hearing these words is such a ... it's just perfect, thank you so much.

Always appreciate you coming by and hanging out, looking forward to continue to upping the production quality game (and the poker quality game as well) to hopefully get into the conversation as a top Twitch Streamer :)

I'm going to be patient, consistent, and know that all good things come in due time to those who work hard and wait!
 
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charliej

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Micro question

Hi. I'm a decent rec player that plays cash micro stakes online an hour or two almost every day (VPIP 23.3, PFR 14.8). Every resource says I must learn how to 'crush' the lower stakes before moving up, and that's what I've been focusing on lately, but my results at 10NL and 25NL suck compared to 50NL and don't seem to be improving.

Stats for last 22k hands on BOL are as follows:
10NL 10549 hands -11.71 bb/100
25NL 8986 hands -18.03 bb/100
50NL 2591 hands +21.93 bb/100

And from last just night:
5PM EST 25NL 1 hour 45 hands -16.89 bb/100
7PM EST 25NL 1 hour 20 mins 91 hands -47.52 bb/100
9PM EST 50NL 30 mins 41 hands +83.90 bb/100

Small sample size yes, but it is representative of my issue.

The play at 10NL and 25NL as compared to 50NL seems much looser and reckless. Less folding even when giving poor pot odds and suck outs with ridiculous holdings. Tightening up alone doesn't seem to work overall.

My question is, should just forget about trying to beat the lowest stakes and play at 50NL looking to move up from there, or is there important knowledge still to be gained at the lower levels?

Thanks!
 
Evan Jarvis

Evan Jarvis

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Hi. I'm a decent rec player that plays cash micro stakes online an hour or two almost every day (VPIP 23.3, PFR 14.8). Every resource says I must learn how to 'crush' the lower stakes before moving up, and that's what I've been focusing on lately, but my results at 10NL and 25NL suck compared to 50NL and don't seem to be improving.

Stats for last 22k hands on BOL are as follows:
10NL 10549 hands -11.71 bb/100
25NL 8986 hands -18.03 bb/100
50NL 2591 hands +21.93 bb/100

And from last just night:
5PM EST 25NL 1 hour 45 hands -16.89 bb/100
7PM EST 25NL 1 hour 20 mins 91 hands -47.52 bb/100
9PM EST 50NL 30 mins 41 hands +83.90 bb/100

Small sample size yes, but it is representative of my issue.

The play at 10NL and 25NL as compared to 50NL seems much looser and reckless. Less folding even when giving poor pot odds and suck outs with ridiculous holdings. Tightening up alone doesn't seem to work overall.

My question is, should just forget about trying to beat the lowest stakes and play at 50NL looking to move up from there, or is there important knowledge still to be gained at the lower levels?

Thanks!


Great question, and I'll do my best to answer it based on my personal experience.

The recommendation of working your way up thru the limits is a valid one and is appropriate for people who don't have the means to start with a nice bankroll.

If you feel that you've learned what you need to learn from a 'foundations' perspective and have the means to start with a proper bankroll for 50nl (at least $2k) then by all means go for it.

Nothing says you have to 'prove yourself at each limit', it's just a challenge that some people like to take on (and it can be a good rule for people who haven't learned money management / emotional control yet).

On to my personal story

I learned my skills by playing $5.50 SNGs and working by way up to $109s (with some shots at $215s and $320). After which I transitioned to cash games.

Once I got to cash games I started at 100NL because i had more than enough bankroll for it ($10k in my case) and playing smaller limits wouldn't stimulate me enough for me to be engaged (even if I played a lot of tables).

From there I worked up to 200nl, 400nl, and even 1000nl. But, the only time I played 50nl or smaller there was when I was making training videos. Because from a time/hourly perspective it didn't make sense for me to play those games just to 'prove i could' or whatever.

Now I didn't play much 600nl or 2000nl because the style of play in those particular limits were ones I had much more difficulty with (surprisingly that was not the case with 1000nl). But if there was a good game running at 2000nl or even 5000nl I wasn't afraid to sit in and take a shot when my bankroll allowed it.

If I'd thought of myself strictly as a 400nl player or whatever it would've limited me from getting in good games and lucrative opportunities. The same is true if I had strict rules about when i was allowed to play a bigger game. Those rules are for people who don't have the discipline to only get in good games and are prone to chasing losses. But I had discipline and I didn't have to worry about that.

Now contrast to my friend Greg Merson.

He loved the style of play in the 600nl and 2000nl+ games so even when his bankroll was a little 'short' he would get in those games. Why?

Because his style performed better in those games while he found the tighter 400nl and 1000nl games to be boring and not stimulating (even though he could beat them). He also knew he had the means to reload a chunk bankroll if he ever needed it, so risk of ruin wasn't an issue and it made sense for him to just get into the games that were best for him so that he could maximize his edge, his hourly rate and his expected value.

This sounds like it's similar to your case. And if for certain you do better in the 50nl environment because your style suits it better, then go for it. Know that you have a small sample, and that it's important to have enough money behind (or a strong enough income outside poker) that the swings won't effect you strongly emotionally, because that's where the risk comes in.

It's really about knowing where you perform best, and where that sweet spot of being in 'flow' is based on the games being challenging enough, but not too challenging. Based on the money being meaningful enough that it excites you a bit, but not so much that it stressed you out. And just being honest with yourself about that.

So... there are 2 examples of different cases where the approach was different.

The short answer is No, you don't need to 'prove you can beat every limit'. And there may even be cons to playing in the really small stakes games which are often considered a 'rake trap'. Your goal should be playing as high as you can (most of the time) where you still maintain an edge (and don't feel overly stressed) because this is what will yield you the most money per hour invested and probably the most satisfaction as well.

Hope that helps and hope the stories added a little bit of perspective.
Good luck on the tables my friend, get stackin!

P.S. If you want any extra theory videos for free, checkout my best of playlist http://gripsed.com/win :D
 
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