Am i just being unlucky?

[orangepeeleo]

My point is you dont know for sure that he's stealing again, i know its hard to believe but even the most manic of maniacs actually gets a hand eventually, he could be sat there with aces or kings got all you know, in which case ur a big underdog, if he's constantly going all in and being an idiot i usually let someone else call him unless i find myself with any pair above 10's or 9's and even then i'll only call if i know theres not going to be much action after me.

In the hand that u put up theres 6 players to act after you, that'd be far to much future action for me w/ AKo.

If i was feeling lucky and hadn't played blackjack or roulette for a while i might call with AK suited and gamble, even though i know its still a bad call and the sooted part only adds about 2% to my win percentage but thats another personal problem of mine entirely lol.

At the end of the day its a freeroll so no calls gonna put u on ur ass with nothing to eat but the way i always used to approach freerolls when i was learning was to treat them as if i was playing with all the money i had, play your 'A' game all the time and when you eventually move up to real money you'll be a lot more prepared because you've been making the correct desicions at the table for months, the way i see it is you can treat freerolls for what they are and throw your chips in with everyone else or you can play seriously and actually benefit from them.

 

[Roger1960]

For one thing you are betting way too much. Going all in preflop is a crapshoot. it isn't playing poker. Some players when seeing an all in especially at the start of a tourney, is just like throwing blood to sharks.
Don't forget there are 7 cards that you both have to play with and 5 are shared. If you are not waiting for your hand to come before betting, then any thing can and will happen.
Most times you want players to stay in the hand, you just don't want them to win.
In the first one with blinds at 50, you must have gone all in at least twice to have that many chips. The other players just assume you are going all in with any two cards. You will have a lot more callers at the start of tourneys, especially freerolls. They not only have no money invested, they have no time invested either.

 

[Ronaldadio]

"Also, if u think getting all your chips in with AK against 1 raiser and a caller is a bad beat u have a long way to go."

Ronaldadio:

A bad beat is a loss in which the losing player had the better odds on the winning player earlier in the hand. In general, the term is used when all the chips go in the pot when the losing player had odds. To take a bad beat means to be on the losing end of a bad beat; to lay a bad beat means to be on the winning end of a bad beat.

So you still think It wasnt a bad beat? I had AK, went against an agressive player who just went all in hand before, showing up J7 that is not a bad beat?

It was a bad beat, if we use your explination. But if every time people lost a 2:1 shot preflop(and it wasnt because the other player in the pot made u even money to take the pot down) and they posted it here, the whole www. would explode!!!

I am sure I`m not on my own here by saying what I`m about to say...

You are very new to poker and I wish you luck. Poker is not an exact science, so all you can do is make judgements based on the information you have (this is you and the other person)

I`ll try to give u another example. If I was short stacked and u showed me AKo and I had J9 I would call - because I had 2 live cards.

I`m telling you now, u r lucky it`s me that is responding to your thread - some of the other regulars would not have been as kind

 

[TheseNutsWin]

Ronaldadio , so in this case what are the only cards you would have called a maniac with? AA, KK ? the rest fold? Or would you just fold everything.

 

[TheseNutsWin]

For one thing you are betting way too much. Going all in preflop is a crapshoot. it isn't playing poker.

So you never go all in in preflop because its not poker? kind of weird statement. Why wouldn`t you call all in a maniac who has been playing very aggressive since the beginning and lately going all in hand by hand if you think you are probably holding the best hand out there?

 

[TheseNutsWin]

i`m pretty new to this so don`t think i`m mocking you or something i`m just trying to understand your thinking...

 

[KenFischer]

I'm going to gamble with AA and KK pretty much every time here. QQ, I'll think about calling, but might not every time, especially early.

Otherwise, I'll happily let them steal a couple of chips until I have a premium hand and can double-up through them. My biggest hope isn't for them to stop doing it, it's that I get a calling hand before someone else does.

This is based on being early in the tournament. Later when I'm getting short on chips, I'm calling in more spots.

 

[Steveg1976]

Try posting some HH in the analysis section, it will help you spot why calling is right in one spot and laying down a big hand is better another time. There is a lot more going on with playing a hand than just the cards you are holding.

When you post HH, please don't post the results right away. The results can really bias peoples opinions about the way a hand could/should have been played.

 

[Ronaldadio]

Ronaldadio , so in this case what are the only cards you would have called a maniac with? AA, KK ? the rest fold? Or would you just fold everything.

You have said you are new to poker. So I accept that sometimes its hard to understand the concept. Saying "so what will you call with" highlights your inexperience.

When making my decision I will take into account a lot of things. One thing I`m probably not worried about is this guy pushing all in as he has anything, so based on that I know I`m ahead most of the time.

The biggest concern is people to act after me.

Next will be how far into the tourny we are.

How many chips I have.

The list goes on.

To put you right here, I would have called if I had been you. The reason? I don`t bother with freerolls so if I had gone out it would not have bothered me. It does not seem to be the case with you. I always have an idea of how I am going to play certain hands before a tourny starts, but it will depend on action around the table.

so baisically if a maniac goes all in and you let him steal and next hand goes all in again you get AK you still let him steal?

Forget it is a freeroll and say u r playing in a big tourny. The answer to your question is yes, I would.

I said earlier in this thread that it is not my job to take this guy out. It is my job to accumilate as many chips as possible.

If this guy is going all in every hand with any holding he will be out soon - guarenteed.

This guys is pissing you off - correct??? You are sick of him moving all in???

What I do with people like this is tighten up - if he has position on you don`t even try to see a cheap flop - u r throwing chips away.

To keep myself occupied I watch him take down big pots and then within a short period of time I`m wishing him "gg" as he pushes one hand too many.

My point is you dont know for sure that he's stealing again, i know its hard to believe but even the most manic of maniacs actually gets a hand eventually, he could be sat there with aces or kings got all you know, in which case ur a big underdog, if he's constantly going all in and being an idiot i usually let someone else call him unless i find myself with any pair above 10's or 9's and even then i'll only call if i know theres not going to be much action after me.

This is also a valid point and one of the reasons these players can build up a stack.

I`ve know times I have though "enough is enough" and called his raise with my AQ for him to turn over AA.

 

[TheseNutsWin]

You know what's funny i think that playing they way Harrington teaches in his book in freerolls is not really a good idea.. I try to play as close as his book is saying, (still making mistakes) but i have some general idea how to play. I have a friend who just started playing a week ago. Never played texas hold'em before he has played as much during this week as i did and he has twice came very close to qualify (29/12000) (54/12000) . I have not even come that close as he did. How do you explain this? He playes much many hands then i do even hands i would not limp in, flopping monster. I`m starting to get annoyed , I read books end up playing worse then somebody who just started playing hold'em..

 

[TheseNutsWin]

just to add i play about 30% of my hands.. is that too low?

 

[KenFischer]

30% is pretty loose - I'm more in the 15-20% range on a 9 or 10 handed table.

These percentages always don't tell the full story, but if I see someone coming into that many pots at my table, I know they are playing quite a few hands that are weaker than what I am throwing away, and I'm looking for an opportunity to make them pay for it

 

[111-THEMAD-111]

Player without a country

30% is way to high. Slow down and watch the game for a while. You will learn when it's time to play just by watching...................

 

[Ronaldadio]

You know what's funny i think that playing they way Harrington teaches in his book in freerolls is not really a good idea.. I try to play as close as his book is saying, (still making mistakes) but i have some general idea how to play. I have a friend who just started playing a week ago. Never played texas hold'em before he has played as much during this week as i did and he has twice came very close to qualify (29/12000) (54/12000) . I have not even come that close as he did. How do you explain this? He playes much many hands then i do even hands i would not limp in, flopping monster. I`m starting to get annoyed , I read books end up playing worse then somebody who just started playing hold'em..

Sorry guys, but I give in!!!

 

[TheseNutsWin]

Ronaldadio I`m sorry i`m annoying you but just understand that i`m starting to be totaly confused. I figured i played too tight now i`m being told i`m not tight enough.. lol

 

[Ronaldadio]

Ronaldadio I`m sorry i`m annoying you but just understand that i`m starting to be totaly confused. I figured i played too tight now i`m being told i`m not tight enough.. lol

OK, one last try...

A lot of things you say are correct, but correct to an extent.

Poker, hand by hand or game by game is not an exact science.

The Worlds greatest poker player can go weeks without winning due to a thing you will get used to called `variance`

Pot odds is a good example.

Say you are delt AA. One other guys pushes all in so you call. At that stage you will be about 5:1 fav.

So, lets brake that down. For every 5 times you play that hand, u will win four, the other guy will win one.

However, due to the nature of probability, there is not a law that says this must happen in this order. This probability will hold up over a long long period of time, but there is no set period (hope I`m not losing you here?)
So you could play this 5 times in a tourny and lose 3.

Having said this, if every time you got your chips in the pot u were a 5:1 fav you will be a rich person - fact!!!

just to add i play about 30% of my hands.. is that too low?

There is no correct % to play. It is all dependant on situations. These situations include your hole cards, your position at the table, the way others are playing, you chip size relevant to the blinds, and the list goes on.

I have won tournys where I have only played 10% of my hands, other times it has been as high as 40%.

So, to put that into perspective, if u were gong to play 20% of your hands, and you had reached your 20% quota - are you going to throw away your AA when u r chip leader, on the button and the short stack has pushed all in for 10 times the big blind, everyone else has folded? "I`m gonna fold `cause I`ve played 20% of my pocket cards" - no!!!

You mention Dan Harrington. He is suggesting people new to poker tighten up. Example... you are delt A3 in late position. You limp into a flop of 6 people. The flop is A79. A less experienced player would struggle to get away from your pair of aces. So what Harrington is saying is don`t get involved in hands that could get you in trouble.

 

[wally1012]

Interesting thread here. Freerolls and play money are a lot different than real money games. Your AK will hit one on the flop 40% of the time. I will treat AK like almost any two cards untill i see the flop or feel i can fold out most of the other players with a raise. Any major reraise or all in i will fold to early in the tournament. DO NOT go on tilt against one player because he pushes a lot, you never know what he is pushing with. Wait till you have a hand you can push with (preferably after the flop) then you can make a lot of chips from this player.

If i had an AA or KK i probably would have called this guy and been busted out like you were thats where the gamble comes in. Some you win and some you dont.

Freerolls are fun but in real money the freeroll player will usually lose its a completely different game! Been there done that learned the hard way.

Was playing Full Tilt wsop freeroll game one 225 players big blind took me all in came back to come in second and a seat to the next level. Next level 800 + made it to 3rd place before a stright on the river took out my AA (note to self stop thinking AA is a great hand LOL)of course i needed to be in second to advance to the final level.

First post here looks like a fun forum

 

[TheseNutsWin]

thanks guys for your advice. i`m actually slowly trying to figure it out and slowly i`m catching on to it... as you guys are saying there is a huge amount of maniacs playing in freerolls. And it kind of sucks but they do get lucky a lot.. I`ve realized to play even tighter then i play with my friends or casino. Be careful of straights and flushes they all wait for them and they dont respect 3xBB raises. I only go all in now if i`m absolutely sure i have the nuts... lol but i`m still learning..

 

[TheseNutsWin]

ok here's what i`m still confused with guys... Now that i play tight.. I seem to be eaten too often by the blinds... basically i wait for premium hands( droped my playing hands to about 23%) but they dont come.. What do you do when you wait for so long and you keep getting .... 92, 42, 73, Q2 , J4, K4, A3o, ? Should i try to steal? problem is there are players with more money and some wackos who would call anybodys all in with whatever they have that stealing is really hard to do (unless i`m mistaken). Eventually when I do get my KK, I raise 3xBB to see an A's on the flop and a guy raising me half a pot.. Jesus can i get a brake??? I need tips guys! thanks.. Seems to me now i`m playing too tight..

 

[KenFischer]

It sounds like you are stealing with different bet sizes than your "normal" playable hands. The raises when you are "stealing" should be exactly the same as a raise when you are just opening the pot with a hand that is playable. You shouldn't be pushing your entire stack to steal.

What you are really looking to do is change your playable hands based on position. In the earliest positions (right after the blinds) only play your most premium hands, and bring them in for a raise if you are first to act. As your position improves, lower your hand requirements, but still bring them in for a raise the same way when you are first into the pot. By the time you get to the cutoff and button, you should be playing your weakest opening hands, again this is assuming you are first to put chips in.

 

[Ronaldadio]

as you guys are saying there is a huge amount of maniacs playing in freerolls. And it kind of sucks but they do get lucky a lot..

They don`t get any luckier than anyone else, this is just your perception.

I play maingly a tight game early in a tourny, but I could name a lot of times when I `got it wrong`, called a reraise with AKs, other guys turns AA and the flop comes down 10JQ and it holds.

Like everthing in life, people will only remember the times something cost them big.

If you get knocked out of a tourny by someone who caught their miracle hand he is a dick - if u final table and hit the money big u forget that hand when u pushed flop with your A with Q kicker - other guy turns AK and u hit your Q on the river.

 

[wally1012]

I dont watch the % of hands played that closely that will depend on the cards your delt. If your playing the right hands you will see your % in the short run go from 5% to 50%. Long run in the 20 % area. I would suggest the Full Tilt Stratigy Guide for reading there is a table showing the hands by position which is a good starting guide.

Wally