All in pre with AK

IPlay

IPlay

Bum hunts 25NL
Joined
Oct 7, 2013
Total posts
2,593
I kind of feel like I know this answer but just want some opinions on it.

25NL and I am facing an all in raise from a short stack who has to have a low to medium pocket pair and I have AK, is it -EV to make this call?

The situation was going like this, there is a short stack to my right that I was kind of bullying with raises pre when he kept trying to limp and finally it goes like this

He is SB and I am BB and he once again limps in for .25, I raise to $1.00 and he shoves for $10. I am sitting here with AKo and am pretty sure he does not have AA or KK or he would of called to see a flop or did a smaller raise. I am pretty sure he is just frustrated because I was running him over and I figured he had a weak holding such as a medium pocket pair or maybe AJ AQ AK.

I call and he turns over 44 and they hold up.

Since any pocket pair is a favorite over AK is my call bad? Or is it +EV since he could of had AJ AQ or AK also which I had dominated/split.

I personally think it was a decent call on my part and was probably +EV, but since pokerstove is expired it is hard to tell :p

Anyone help me update pokerstove to get it working again?

Edit, I also feel like getting it all in pre with AK in a cash game is best if I am the one shoving since it also gives me a decent amount of fold equity, but is calling all in pre with AK a mistake?(That is the main question really.)
 
E

erlanditas

Rock Star
Joined
Jan 27, 2014
Total posts
253
AK its 50+% if he get QQ JJ 1010 then I think its 48/52 for him 2 percents more if he haves lower than 10 you get 50/50
 
IPlay

IPlay

Bum hunts 25NL
Joined
Oct 7, 2013
Total posts
2,593
AK its 50+% if he get QQ JJ 1010 then I think its 48/52 for him 2 percents more if he haves lower than 10 you get 50/50

Oh straight blockers, never thought of that. Makes me feel better about my call since I figured he had 77-99 or AJ+

Thanks for the reply
 
Arjonius

Arjonius

Legend
Joined
Jun 8, 2005
Total posts
3,167
You can't get the exact odds at the table, but since there's some dead money in the pot, it's a call with any hand where you think you're a slight dog. If you think you're favored, it's an obvious call. Fwiw, if you eliminate AA KK from his range and give him AJ+ 44-QQ, you're about an 11:9 favorite.
 
H

hffjd2000

Legend
Joined
Jan 6, 2014
Total posts
2,329
Easy fold here. I thought he has a pair hand. The percentage of your hand to his is coinflip or 52 vs 48 almost the same percentage. Your pot odds is terrible.
 
trolaAa

trolaAa

Rock Star
Joined
Dec 21, 2013
Total posts
274
Easy fold here. I thought he has a pair hand. The percentage of your hand to his is coinflip or 52 vs 48 almost the same percentage. Your pot odds is terrible.
+1
Same thinking like me .. but there is and one more thing
If you imagine that you have AK and your opponent against you bet the same amount of money but his stack is bigger than yours would you still pay with AK?
 
Logan2

Logan2

Legend
Joined
Nov 5, 2008
Total posts
4,054
I personally think it was a decent call on my part and was probably +EV, but since pokerstove is expired it is hard to tell :p

Anyone help me update pokerstove to get it working again?

Edit, I also feel like getting it all in pre with AK in a cash game is best if I am the one shoving since it also gives me a decent amount of fold equity, but is calling all in pre with AK a mistake?(That is the main question really.)
You could use equilab, is like pokerstove but better.

http://download.pokerstrategy.com/poker-tools/equilab-holdem/download/equilab.exe
 
magicius

magicius

Legend
Joined
Dec 28, 2013
Total posts
1,822
i think you bullied him a bit long :) thats why he just waited for any pair to shove... it was his revange ...

i am kinda sceptic going allin with AK... lost quite a bit in few days so its a no no to me...
when your AK gets cracked by 22-66 than you feel baaaad:stickyman
 
Logan2

Logan2

Legend
Joined
Nov 5, 2008
Total posts
4,054
About calling with AK, i don´t know, it could be +ev vs some villains but is also a high variance play, i usually run very bad on flips so i prefer to not get on those spots.
 
C

carltikaz

Rising Star
Joined
Feb 4, 2014
Total posts
15
its a gamble mate...just a coin flip id call him as he was shortstacked in the SB
 
LD1977

LD1977

Legend
Joined
Dec 22, 2012
Total posts
3,091
I can't believe people want to fold AK there :eek: WTF?

1) He is a shorty and their shoving ranges there include a lot of Aces so not every hand is a pocket pair. SB vs BB in general is an excellent opportunity for him to snatch 3-4bb since many players autoraise SB limpers.
2) If he is frustrated and tilting, he can do this with any suited Ace, any pair and maybe even wider.
3) Calling 9$ in 20$ pot needs 45% equity and we can argue it is borderline blah blah mental masturbation, BUT if you start folding AK then he is going to annihilate you (since you call pretty much never). Shorties rely on fold equity quite a bit and their actual equity is a backup if they get called.
 
S

Scrover

Rock Star
Joined
Jan 26, 2014
Total posts
198
You are usually taking a coinflip against a normal person or maybe you have him dominated with a weaker ace. Usually, a person in microstakes (not all) think sb/bb that an ace is good enough to shove and any pocket pair. So you are either flipping or dominating them. So looking at your pot odds, the best thing to do is call and hope you win. So I think calling is the best option.
 
J

jsh169

Visionary
Joined
Jun 22, 2013
Total posts
888
If its below 50 bbs I would never worry about getting ak in against someone. It becomes much more villain dependent after that.
 
Arjonius

Arjonius

Legend
Joined
Jun 8, 2005
Total posts
3,167
Easy fold here. I thought he has a pair hand. The percentage of your hand to his is coinflip or 52 vs 48 almost the same percentage. Your pot odds is terrible.
Incorrect. The pot odds aren't even close to terrible. They're in your favor.

When he shoves for $10, you are faced with calling $9 more to win a pot that would be $20. This gives you more than enough pot odds to offset being behind by a few %.

By calling as a 52:48 dog, you win $20 48% of the time, so your EV for your $9 call is $9.60 or +$0.60 compared to folding.
 
IPlay

IPlay

Bum hunts 25NL
Joined
Oct 7, 2013
Total posts
2,593
Incorrect. The pot odds aren't even close to terrible. They're in your favor.

When he shoves for $10, you are faced with calling $9 more to win a pot that would be $20. This gives you more than enough pot odds to offset being behind by a few %.

By calling as a 52:48 dog, you win $20 48% of the time, so your EV for your $9 call is $9.60 or +$0.60 compared to folding.

Yup, I ran it through equilab and I was a 54% favorite to win vs his range so not a bad call because of the situation and the fact that I was running him over with raises for so long and his shoving range was quite wide.

If this was a short stack that I had no read on, folding is the +EV option because their shoving range narrows quite a bit.
 
T

Tiltt2424

Enthusiast
Joined
Dec 17, 2013
Total posts
78
I think the call is certainly correct against a short stacked blind vs blind confrontation.
 
el_magiciann

el_magiciann

Legend
Joined
Sep 8, 2013
Total posts
1,971
I think that every one has different decision about this situation. Actually we all know that AKoff is behind every pair pre flop. And big favourite vs weaker A. This situation is coin flip so it is more gambling than poker skills. My decision about this hand depends on 2 things.
1) If i have successfull session and i am feeling lucky and winning then i won't miss this AK hand for nothing in the world.
2) If i feel unlucky with coin flips and i want to win money with poker skills i can fold the hand with ease.
 
IPlay

IPlay

Bum hunts 25NL
Joined
Oct 7, 2013
Total posts
2,593
I think that every one has different decision about this situation. Actually we all know that AKoff is behind every pair pre flop. And big favourite vs weaker A. This situation is coin flip so it is more gambling than poker skills. My decision about this hand depends on 2 things.
1) If i have successfull session and i am feeling lucky and winning then i won't miss this AK hand for nothing in the world.
2) If i feel unlucky with coin flips and i want to win money with poker skills i can fold the hand with ease.

I am not sure but this sounds like it would be a major leak in your game.
 
DrazaFFT

DrazaFFT

public static void
Joined
Mar 9, 2013
Total posts
6,184
I think that every one has different decision about this situation. Actually we all know that AKoff is behind every pair pre flop. And big favourite vs weaker A. This situation is coin flip so it is more gambling than poker skills. My decision about this hand depends on 2 things.
1) If i have successfull session and i am feeling lucky and winning then i won't miss this AK hand for nothing in the world.
2) If i feel unlucky with coin flips and i want to win money with poker skills i can fold the hand with ease.

lol pure gold post.

I guess those us who don't have magical skill should probably follow what LD said.

@LD you nailed it m8, great post
 
A

adepoker11

Enthusiast
Joined
Oct 31, 2013
Total posts
74
only with aa there is advantage
other major ranges are a 60/40 with the rationality of the variance
 
T

tohos

Rock Star
Joined
Jun 30, 2013
Total posts
269
I think that every one has different decision about this situation. Actually we all know that AKoff is behind every pair pre flop. And big favourite vs weaker A. This situation is coin flip so it is more gambling than poker skills. My decision about this hand depends on 2 things.
1) If i have successfull session and i am feeling lucky and winning then i won't miss this AK hand for nothing in the world.
2) If i feel unlucky with coin flips and i want to win money with poker skills i can fold the hand with ease.

Even if you're against a pocket pair, you get 9:11 odds which would be about just the correct odds to call. Never never never NEVER am I folding in this spot, considering theres a lot of AX you are dominating. Especially if you have been running him over he might be shoving wider since he perceives you to be weak.

Poker is still a game of both skill AND luck(well math) and if you are a mathematical favourite, you are losing value in the long run by folding because you feel unlucky. You should push every edge and learn to handle the variance.
 
H

Henreiman

Visionary
Joined
Feb 17, 2008
Total posts
560
Doubt he's ever shoving with AA/KK, I'm expecting lots of JJ/1010 type here which makes our hand profitable as long as he does this once in a while with AQ/AJish
 
Karozi615

Karozi615

Visionary
Joined
Aug 20, 2012
Total posts
517
its a thin spot but making the correct decision is important. You have to call here and expect to see a VERY SLIGHT bit of profit in the long run. 44 was certainly in opponents range but you'll take it.
The real +ev comes from the fact that when shortstack has hands like AQ, AJ, A10, KQ, KJ you are way ahead. It wouldn't surprise me if opponent flipped one of these up. you said they were short and you were playing solid, so if they got desperate these would be on the looser end of their range.
Ultimately, its a call.
Your probably only seeing a 1-2% profit margin in the long run in this EXACT spot but we are poker players, we'll take that.
 
Top