I think I may overplay this hand way too much. When I am dealt AK it is almost always automatic that I call an allin. It seems to bite me more than it hits. I really like seeing AK and am always ready to shove with them. My question is this:

Is there a better way of playing AK and making money without having to shove all in?

Well, it would depend on a number of things.

-Type of game
-Stack vs blinds
-How deep you are in a tournament
-Type of player you're up against
-Position
-ETC

Give a few examples, plz.

It's this simple. All I want to do is win. I read in a book when u have AK go ahead and push. It said this is about the only winning strategy for a beginner.

I read in a book when u have AK go ahead and push.

Interesting.

Normally no, this is not the case. I highly advice against open pushing with AK lol.

There is no concrete answer when/how to play a certain hand, there are times when it is better to play a hand a certain way - but they are simply guidelines.

Take into account your POSITION (most important), Blind size/stack size if its cashgame, the player(s) you are up against (Their betting pattern/agressiveness).

If it seems appropriate to push given these conditions, then by all means push with AK. If its 15/30 blinds with a stack of 2000 chips into a tight player, why oh why would you ever push AK?

I was at a $200nl cakepoker table, where a guy would open push his whole stack AIPF if he had AA/KK/AK. Dont do this.

Originally Posted by JCW78

It's this simple. All I want to do is win. I read in a book when u have AK go ahead and push. It said this is about the only winning strategy for a beginner.

either (a) that's a pretty horrible book, or (b) you're taking the advice totally out of context. i'd bet on (b).

Originally Posted by JCW78

early in a tournament someone pushes all in and i have called.
...Why? Why would you risk your tournament life so early on? At these stages, its all about survival. You're risking your tournament on a chance at a double, but even then that wouldnt guarantee you'll place ITM.

i raise than am reraised ill push all in
...Im assuming this is still early in an MTT. Raise with this hand. Its a big hand, its a strong hand, so you should get money in the pot with a raise. However, facing a push, I suggest you lean towards folding. Remember: survival. The pots are just too small to risk it all for a mere double up. Which, at these levels, guarantee nothing.

In early stages of an MTT, I might fold this hand in EP just to conserve my stack. The pot is to small to go after with an EP raise and so many players behind you. If the pot is 30 after the SB and BB, a standard raise is about 4x the BB. So, 20 x 4 = 80. You risk 80 to win 30 chips. I definitely pop it up in LP if its limped/folded to me.
short stack pushes all in i am calling.

Just about any time I'm given AK I am ready to push it all the way.
When is the optimal time for playing this hand?
...Situations where you might push with this hand:
-The pot is big and you're nearing a short-stack in the mid to later stages of an MTT. You might be able to win the pot and increase your stack.
-Shove to isolate against an all in SS and pick up the dead money.
-If you're getting 2:1 odds against someone who you think is holding a pair under KK or a weaker Ace.

There are plenty, plenty more. Like I said: its all situational. A lot of things to take into consideration with AK. For me, I dont like putting my life on AK unless I absolutely have to.

above

Only thing to add is that I see far more people knocked out with AK than any other 2 hole cards. Philthy, DM and Monoxide have covered the rest pretty well.

Only think I can think to add here is that if pushing with AK isn't a good play for a particular situation, calling with it is even worse.

big slick is not that gd a hand post flop if you miss so lay it down. They are only 2 cards folks.

i wouldnt call an all in because first of normally at best your 50/50 unless it's a complete donk because they could have an underpair which is a coinflip or they could have aces or kings where you are totally dominated

I remember having a debate with Zachvac about this. He's of the opinion that YES you should in fact get as much money as possible with AK into the pot - and I assume that means a shove (ZV?)

Personally, being no big time player myself, I try to play AK creatively. It just depends where I'm dealt AK, how the table is playing, and what's happened in action to me preflop.

Originally Posted by icemonkey9

I remember having a debate with Zachvac about this. He's of the opinion that YES you should in fact get as much money as possible with AK into the pot - and I assume that means a shove (ZV?)

Personally, being no big time player myself, I try to play AK creatively. It just depends where I'm dealt AK, how the table is playing, and what's happened in action to me preflop.

At most tables I believe you SHOULD NOT me playing for stacks preflop. Basically if you are playing for stacks with AK you want to be the person pushing all-in as well. Basically the only 2 hands you are afraid of is AA/KK. If you are calling all-ins deepstacked, most hands you end up against are going to be AA/KK. But as you become shorter (or your opponent is shorter) you should be more willing to play for stacks preflop. But think about it this way. If you push all-in with AK you get a lot of hands that you are flipping with to fold. You can fold out hands like JJ/TT and some really loose 99- that raised or 3-bet depending on what your bet is. Meanwhile a lot of people will overplay AQ and sometimes even AJ or KQ and call your all-in.

But if you are shoved to with AK you cannot fold out hands like JJ/TT because they already committed all their chips. If you are shoved to you can guess you are either flipping, way behind (vs. KK/AA) and once in a while against an AQ/AJ/KQ type hand. The first 2 happen way more often than the last one and calling all-in with AK just isn't that profitable I think. But if you have like 40-50 BBs as an effective stack I think you can afford to 4-bet shove pretty profitably, because you get the money from the initial raise and 3-bet when you fold out hands you're flipping with, when in reality your equity dictates you should be getting 50ish%.

Obviously it depends on your opponent, if you're playing a rock you don't want to be playing for stacks preflop unless you're extremely short and if you're playing against an extremely LAG player you may consider stacking deeper with AK. But against a standard of unknown player, you do not want to be stacking with AK deep (which corresponds to early in tournaments usually) but we do want to get considerable money in with AK because our equity decreases a lot on any flop (killing our action/missing us). But if our opponent indicates they have a hand like KK/AA, we need to be able to muck it preflop. As mentioned, AK is powerful because you can bet it hard and get good fold equity against hands you're not that far ahead of while also only being significantly behind exactly 2 hands.

well i think I'm a little late so there is no point of me typing same thing over and in different words

Originally Posted by bob_tiger

well i think I'm a little late so there is no point of me typing same thing over and in different words without capitalization punctuation or actual coherent thought

fyp


Of course there is a big difference between ring and tournaments, imo (in tournaments you have shorter stacks, more fold equity).

Originally Posted by aliengenius

I posted these thoughts in another thread, but I think they are worth repeating here:

The advantages of AK are mostly in it's preflop value:

1. Fold equity. This is the biggest advantage of AK. For me it is almost alway a REraising hand preflop. For you to take advantage of this, you MUST play it aggressively (your opponent must fold). Small pairs can't really call you for fear that you have a bigger pair when you play it aggressively. If you do get called, even by something like QQ, you are still only a slight dog.

2. Pre-flop dominating hand. This is mostly applicable against donks who will call you with Ax soooooded. Inversely, you are only really dominated vs AA or KK (and you have about 30% vs KK).

3. Post flop your top pair always has top kicker when you hit.

Obviously when your opponent goes all in he has neutralized AK's biggest advantage as he can no longer fold. Against two random cards that don't include either and ace or a king you are not that big of a favorite with five to come, as other posters pointed out. But you don't ever really want to be calling an all in with very many hands (AA and KK excepted)-- YOU want to be the one doing the raising or pushing.

Just to look at it another way, let's compare AK to a small pair, say 55.

AK is a dominating hand. IF your raise is called you are (most likely) either:

1. way ahead (vs. a weaker ace)
OR
2. in a 50/50ish race.

With 55 you are (most likely) either:

1. way behind (vs. a bigger pair)
OR
2. in a 50/50ish race.

See the difference?

AK & AQ are the 2 most overrated hands in poker. That is your tip for the day.

Originally Posted by KenFischer

Only think I can think to add here is that if pushing with AK isn't a good play for a particular situation, calling with it is even worse.

You mean if it's not raised right? I never know if I should reraise with this hand. If I am in late position with an average stack in the middle stages of a tournament and there are a lot of callers so far, should I go ahead and reraise?

Originally Posted by Wolfpack43ACC

AK & AQ are the 2 most overrated hands in poker. That is your tip for the day.

AMEN....

how many will take that tip and apply it to their game???

Originally Posted by Wolfpack43ACC

AK & AQ are the 2 most overrated hands in poker. That is your tip for the day.

Well AK is ahead or flipping with every hand but 2. How is that overrated? Postflop I agree and stacking preflop deepstack I agree. But if the effective stacks are like 30 big blinds, I'm shoving with AK. Please explain some logic why that would not be a good play. Explain why they are overrated please.

What is good strategy early on in a tourny when donks go all in?

When to call an all in with AK?
Consider the action in front (raise, or raise-reraise?), people to act after you, blind/stack sizes, and -- most importantly? -- if you are not one of the shortest stacks around, consider folding if it would cost you a significant portion of your stack (if you're doing comfortably well but this would cost half your stack, it might not be worth the risk).

There are many factors with any poker decision, but one of the most important factor to me on how to play AK is what type of player(s) am I going against.

Is the player loose aggressive, is he tight aggressive, did they limp in the pot, what position are you in, how many chips do you have, what stage in the tourney is it, etc... You have to quickly form opinion on the players at your table and make decisions based on that info plus other factors. I highly suggest using a program like holdem indicator to help collect data on players. You can search and download it via bittorrent.

Going all in with AK is like flipping a coin if your opponent has a pair QQ or lower. With AK or AQ I like to isolate against one opponent and bet aggressively on the flop pretty much no matter what shows. Point being I want to see a flop, if I miss hopefully they put me on a big hand that beats whatever they have.

I don't like flipping coins, I like to make decisions that are skewed in my favor. If you provide specific examples and gather opinions I think that would help.

Originally Posted by osiris

There are many factors with any poker decision, but one of the most important factor to me on how to play AK is what type of player(s) am I going against.

Is the player loose aggressive, is he tight aggressive, did they limp in the pot, what position are you in, how many chips do you have, what stage in the tourney is it, etc... You have to quickly form opinion on the players at your table and make decisions based on that info plus other factors. I highly suggest using a program like holdem indicator to help collect data on players. You can search and download it via bittorrent.

Going all in with AK is like flipping a coin if your opponent has a pair QQ or lower. With AK or AQ I like to isolate against one opponent and bet aggressively on the flop pretty much no matter what shows. Point being I want to see a flop, if I miss hopefully they put me on a big hand that beats whatever they have.

I don't like flipping coins, I like to make decisions that are skewed in my favor. If you provide specific examples and gather opinions I think that would help.

You mention it's like flipping a coin against a lower pair, which is why it's crucial to be pushing with AK. If you push all-in with AK, most people will fold 33, and probably up to 99-JJ depending on stack sizes/images/etc. Part of the reason AK is such a good hand is that you can gain a lot of fold equity against hands you're actually barely behind, while only being afraid really of 2 hands.

You know....the odds say U should play it. Specially heads up.

Personally, I've given up on the hand. They don't call it "walking home" for nothin.

-

This helps a lot... Now I won't overplay big slick

There are too many factors to make a blanket statement about playing AK. Sometimes it makes sense to push hard with AK or AQ, sometimes it doesn't.

Based on my last monhs success with AK, I would just as soon limp to the flop and pray. I have been busted out of several tourneys with AK, which in my mind makes it little slick.

Originally Posted by Wolfpack43ACC

AK & AQ are the 2 most overrated hands in poker. That is your tip for the day.

Make that - 'tip of the week'. WAY over-rated and most often overplayed and overbet.

Originally Posted by daxter70

AMEN....

how many will take that tip and apply it to their game???

Applied it to my game long ago and my bankroll has thanked me ever since!! At the end of the day it's ace high with a king kicker..

In early position in a tourney that's just started (freeroll), you may just want to limp in and see a flop and then make a decision. Other than that this is a raise hand (3 to 6x BB). For me, this is an all-in push once less than 10XBB, especially if limpers in front.

I would agree that AK is mostly a situational hand. Depending on the situation, depending on the stakes, depending on what point in the tourney we're in, depending on my chip stack relative to the blinds, and most importantly depending on my mood (e.g. am I too tired to keep playing my best poker or do I need to leave soon and cannot finish the tourney anyways), I will fold, call, raise, reraise, or shove. While its rare that I will call an all-in early in a tourney with AK, there are enough idiots where it is a slightly profitable move. I only really like using the call against the table bullys early on though.

its situational. at first times of a tournament. i like just to call AK. if someone raises ,i just call. they will have %50 of time these. AQ, AJ , A10, KQ, KJ and if an ace or king shows up, only by risking a very small part of chips, u can get a good pot. all others written i think.

also even someone called with 89, his-her chance is %35 to win. your chance to win 3 times in a row with AK against those cards is below %5. lets say they called once with a pair, once with AQ once with QJ. again to beat three of them is like %5. but you risk everything. once you lose you are out.

but its hard to play. i cant play with AK properly, most of time i underestimate it, i admit. if flop doesnt show up an ace or king, maybe we should talk about this.

Boy, talk about all over the board on the best way to play AK! I guess if I'm early in a freeroll tourney I might go all-in, but I prefer to see a flop. Why is everyone so eager to risk everything on 2 cards? I understand the strength of the hand, but why not just raise big? One of the best things I'm learning is that sometimes I should fold a good hand!

Originally Posted by LarryT503

Boy, talk about all over the board on the best way to play AK! I guess if I'm early in a freeroll tourney I might go all-in, but I prefer to see a flop. Why is everyone so eager to risk everything on 2 cards? I understand the strength of the hand, but why not just raise big? One of the best things I'm learning is that sometimes I should fold a good hand!

so see a flop and whiff...get out right...???

playing in APT-Macau finale on BLODOG just now, and raise 5xbb with QQ in the CO..BB min raises and i call. flop is J82 and he cks, i pot it..he calls. turn is 10 and he leads out 200 to a 2500 pot...I TELL HIM HIS AK IS NO GOOD and move 2600 allin...he snap call with what else???


AK!!!!!!

K on river..........

hows that for OVERPLAY POSTFLOP...much less the allin idiocy with the hand preflop???

If you are going to play this hand you have to also be ready to fold this hand.Most of the time that I have seen this hand will just get you into trouble.If I don`t hit the flop I fold them instead of chasing but I did have to learn the hardway.