Advice from Beginner, Intermediate and Pros HERE!!!

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young hova

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Peep this Jack

First post, what up all. Here's my advice

I've never played live in an actual casino yet but here's what I would do if I were you. First when you go to a table don't just sit down at the first open seat, scope the different tables at the limits you like so that you can pick the best table. You definitely don't want to purposely sit at the toughest table if you have options to sit at an easier game even if the limit is a notch lower than what you are used to. I won't get too much into that unless you reply asking for advice on how to look for the best table.

You wanna think what the pros would think? For the most part they are thinking about gaining information whether they are in the hand or not and here are some ways to do that.

GAINING PREFLOP INFORMATION
Heres some of the first things I do when I get to the online tables that will apply to live games. First I look to see who the most aggressive players are and than I take in consideration who the tight players are. This will come in handy later. SECONDLY, this something highly underrated by alot of people, I look for the players that are most adamant in defending their bb. Sometimes even the aggressive players won't defend their blinds, so see how people react when other players raise into their big blind. If the BB folds to a minimum raise than this would indicate and extremely tight/weak player and this means you can raise this persons blind in an uncalled pot alot more with virtually almost nothing, but don't do it to often because others at the table might start to catch on, and if the bb calls you can bet on the flop but if he calls that bet than you might want to slow down and give that type of person credit for a hand if you didnt hit. You also have to pay attention to who the bb will fold his blinds too, because this a can also give you a piece of information as to who is tight/agressive with certain hands. You also should single out weak post flop players blinds, because even if they call to defend their blinds you can fire a probing size bet and if they are weak post flop player they will fold 8-9/10 if they dont hit top pair. I would strongly advise you not to steal a players blind that will get frisky after the flop, they might reraise you with nothing and if you can't read well you'll end up folding, and even if you can read well if you don't hit you might end up folding anyway. I only raise these type of players blinds when I have good hands for real. Start by doing these few things preflop and you'll pick up a lot of small pots and those small pots will help you to gain confidence and play more comfortably. When you fold to a reraise preflop this will make you look like a smarter player and your aggressive preflop action will help you to get your real hands paid off when you get them. Don't be afraid to reraise another player that you think is trying to steal the blinds with a marginal hand your reading has to be good to do this tho, and I usually don't reraise without position because you can't afford to check the flop out of position. Try some of these tips, whatever ones you are comfortable with and I guarantee your game will get better.

GAINING POSTFLOP INFORMATION AND THE PSYCHOLOGICAL GAMES
IMO, one of the most important pieces of information you can gain post flop is what a player shows down with. It is extremely important to pay attention to all showdowns, and once you see a particular showdown you have to reconstruct the hand from street to street in your head and detect their betting patterns and mentally associate the hand they had at the show down with those particular betting patterns. Also I would look to pick up any visual tells if possible that you can also associate with a specific hand showed down. Once you've seen a good amount of hands shown down you'll get a good idea of how they play. Based on show downs, you want to see how a person plays with the nuts, with draws, top pair with top kicker, top pair with marginal kickers, and also middle and bottom pair, all of these must be taken into perspective of how he plays them when the player has position and when he doesn't, because most likely he'll play all of those hands differently with different position. Also, from the show down you can also learn what a person raises with preflop in what position, this is important because an under the gun raise usually only comes from a player with a premium hand but sometimes people will raise with anything under the gun and throw you off. For example some people will only call with aq ak under the gun/early position, but they will raise it up in late position if they sense weakness. You have to be weary of these things and who will play like this because it'll save you some money when you have top pair with a weak kicker because if your going to lose money on that hand you want to lose a small pot not a big hand. Once you learn from show downs and put people on hands than you can represent more hands in situations. Sometimes you have to pay for information, if its cheap to see a show down sometimes I'll purposely call a small bet just to see what my opponent was betting into me with, especially when you go to the river and you are getting pot odds to call you might as well at least call if you have no clue what they have to gain some info for future hands. Once you learn your reads you have to go with your gut and start raising more to gain information. You should think when you can make a raise to take the whole pot down and when you can make a raise to take control of the hand, with well timed raises you can take control of drawing players hands with bottom pair and make them lay down with a continuation bet. Once you start raising alot though you have to consider if players are started to get agitated by what you are doing and which players can keep their composure under pressure. If I know I am starting to get in someone's head to a point where I known they might just go all in over top of my raise I'll stop raising that person with marginal hands to make it seem like i'm not just trying to push that player around because once you get under someones skin like that, raising with marginal hands will get you introuble if you can't call a reraise all in bluff. If I am on the button and I know the bb is capable of reraising based on the idea that they are getting agitated due to continuous raising, tilting because of a string of badbeats or is competent enough that I am simply raising trying to take their blinds than I won't raise on the button without a hand, that way when the reraise does come I can call it. If you know its a possibility of getting reraised even if you think your marginal hand is good than I'll just call alot more, because you'll be forced to play a big pot when your not confident in your hand just because of someone else's current mindset, and thats not to exclude the fact that they may actually have a hand. The point of raising without the nuts is to take down the pot then and there or to gain information to determine whether your hand is good or not, You can also raise with position on the turn just to scare your opponent to check on the river so that you can check behind him in hopes that your hand is good on a showdown. If you think your gonna get reraised by raising than you don't raise without a strong hand. My advice to raising is make all of your raises similar, I'll raise up bottom pair the same amount I would with the absolute nuts alot of times, it makes your raises look alot more un predictable. Though its much more to talk about the last thing I want to say right now is sometimes you shouldplay some psychological games with a specific player that interferes with the way you play. Players that interfere with your playing style will definitley impede your process of winning pots so you should play some pots with the intent to solely let that person know that you don't like how they are currently playing whether you will lose or win the pot. This may sound stupid, but sometimes I feel that it is necessary, though you might lose a little money in a session by doing this you'll definitely get a player that impedes the process of you gaining income off of your back. This particularly applies to a player that will call with almost anything just because he has position on everyone else and there are few callers to the pot, just because he/she knows they can pick up a small pot with a bet to a checked pot OR the type of player that will bet on any checked pot more than usual trying to stab at it to take it down (i'll call this the check bettor). First, I raise alot more when this player limps when he is in position and I act after him so that I can take control of the pot then and there preflop. When I have a hand and they are in position I nearly always check raise their flop bets, this will help to slow down the player's flop bets because they'll fear getting checkraised constantly. On a checked flop with me and just the position player/check bettor in the flop I'll check raise the turn more often especially with over cards and especially with position because he'll be virtually forced to check without a hand of position when I am still left to act, you can often bet here or even check here with nothing but over cards and still win the pot (because remember he's just trying to steal the pot because no one is betting). Lastly I'll raise up hands that I think I can take down with nothing when it is me, the check bettor/position player and a passive player. Sometimes the passive player will have the best hand and will win the pot and my read will be wrong, but the check bettor/position player will be taught a lesson if he goes along for the ride because not only will you lose money but if he calls it'll send him a message that if you play a lot of pots with me be willing to lose some of your stack when I have nothing. It really sinks in when you raise the turn with you the aggressive player and the passive player in the hand and all call and than the passive player leads out on the river and you fold right behind the aggressive player. He'll think to himself "this player is an idiot and if I keep getting in pots with him I'll lose more money with marginal hands". By this point you'll at least have slowed down the position player/check bettor when he is in pots with you because you will have somewhat of a crazy image at the table.

Hope some of that helped, if anything is specifically confusing quote it and reply back, and remember like someone else said, You have to play your style, not all things will apply, but some of these tools can help. If your looking for something more specific I suggest you create a hand for hand analysis so it can be broken down in the way that you want.
 
tiltboy

tiltboy

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I play Live although i may miss a few things here is my thought process in various situations

Pre Flop

1. Whats my position / Wheres the button
2. Who's acting after /before me in the hand
3. Quick Glance at players veiwing their cards
4. Whats the action when it gets to me
5. What do i have / what could they have
6. What do i want to acheive with my next move

I would have looked at basic tells, bets, what kind of players are after me during the entire hand (aggressive players are likely to put me off). Can i steal the button here etc.

Flop - Turn - River

1. Reactions of opponents to flop
2. Who's bet - what did they do pre flop - what have they done before - is they betting consistent to what i think they have
3. What could they have / are they tight/aggressive
4. what would i need to win the pot / what are my odds to win the pot / pot odds / Can i bet to win the pot but still give myself correct odds if called
5. Whos after me, what would they think i have


this is not totally accurate i may have missed things but i generally have these thoughts in my head during live games.

Patience used to be an issue for me so i adpoted this thought process when not in hands to occupy me and improve my read
 
J

Jonline

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i play live almost daily. main thing is just to put in your time and gain experience. ive read almost every book on the shelf, and they do help, but there is no sub for experience. you really have to be there to understand what they are trying to explain in the books/videos.
another main point is to try to figure out the story the other player is telling. if it doesn't make sense he may be bluffing, and same goes for you. when i started i would try to make bluffs that just didnt make sense and would get called 90% of the time by the more experience players.
 
Swanny

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There's been alot covered here. One thing I do (particulary pre-flop) is watch the action of the players (counting bets) before it is my turn. I NEVER look at my cards until it's my turn. I concentrate on what the other players are doing. I play 3/6 Live and that sometimes annoys people, but I very rarely if ever have a hard time making a quick decision about how to play the hand. I have watched all the action, it's my turn, look at cards, the play should be obvious.

Watching the action is very important. Counting bets is a must! You can't do it while your thinking about how strong/weak your hand is.

For online play, I habitually (took me a while to do) put my mouse pointer in the same spot. Never over a button. There have been times when I planned a raise but would probably fold to a raise and accidentally re-raised. Ouch!

I really wish the poker sites would give an option of waiting to see your hole cards.
 
ace2daface

ace2daface

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Young hova,

While im sure all the info in that post above is great, i did not read it.

Reason: no paragraphs, no breaks in the post. it was too cramped/crammed.

when you are posting replys that long it might be wise to structure the response in a more readable format.

More people might read it.

just a thought.
 
tnt72

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Awesome post, just goes to show the level of players at Cardschat. Big thumbsup:)
 
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seghill

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practice

as a relative newcomer I like to practice using freerolls - OK my scotch (sic) blood but it gives me a good chance to practice what ius the most bimportant part of tournaments - PATIENCE
 
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Jonline

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i would discourage anyone including newcomers from playing freerolls...
 
jaymfc

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i like that i used to do the same thing (bluff at wrong time ) and see lots of people doing it and get nailed , the bluff needs to seem fesible to work.
 
Munchrs

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people will base their reads on you on how they would play the particular hand they think you have. So study them and next time you flop a set play it like their flush draw, it is like tanking candy from a baby.
 
Yumboltking

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I always made myself the same question:
are you ready to lose with that hand??
this helps me not going on tilt and besides it gives me some time to reanalize my decision
best question to ask when you are thinking of pushing.
 
D

def_man56

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thanks to everyones advice. but im not an online player at all really. im talkin about live games. Im just to get a feel of what people think bout going to a table watching other players, thinking during a hand, etc... I read books and see how some pros think, but I think we could all learn steps from us non-experts, to see how evolve our thinking. The more we learn from each other, the more we grow and eventually move past the pros in thinking. So let me know what yall think.

This is pretty basic but it should help you.
1. Don't look @ your cards until it's your turn to act. You might be providing a tell to your opponents that they can use.

2. Always be aware of your position @ the table. If you're in MP with A-J off and the pot has been raised and re-raised, fold. More than likely your hand is no good. This is also based on the size of you & your opponents chip stacks & if it's a tourney or a cash game.

3. If you play a lot of cash games get a pen & paper and track all your sessions and get your hands on any reading material regarding "bankroll management"
 
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vanilla sky

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Be aggressive

Be aggressive at the table don't give people the chance to hit their draws, I like to either raise or fold, I don't call too often unless its needed, I am playing the the way gus hansen and patrick would play, raise alot trap people but control your emotions and don't tilt (that's the hard part)
 
killerrat

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Stick to the basics. Implement change. patience. postion.
 
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boazatberea

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Relax

Look man you first need to relax. This is a great fun game this is intended to be played not stressed over. The key is to stop putting yourself in stressful situations over and over again. Especially in a live setting. Be more selective and mindful of postion at the table, starting hands, and your oppents. Most gamers in live tourneys are only there for the thrill and want to try to win all the time. Choose your moments by being selective though don't be afraid to strike when it is your turn. This is espically true in the beginning of a longer tourny.
 
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Adventurebound2

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Look man you first need to relax. This is a great fun game this is intended to be played not stressed over. The key is to stop putting yourself in stressful situations over and over again. Especially in a live setting. Be more selective and mindful of postion at the table, starting hands, and your oppents. Most gamers in live tourneys are only there for the thrill and want to try to win all the time. Choose your moments by being selective though don't be afraid to strike when it is your turn. This is espically true in the beginning of a longer tourny.


Well said......
 
petey5o

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read doyles chapter in super system 2. and you'll be all set
 
YoungGunKid

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When you are playing before you check,raise,re-raise,fold,stone cold bluff,or anything you should have apurpose for doing this each and every time and asked your self if this is the right play given the situation,not just taking actio on impulse,because you fell in love with your hand or youve been bullied around and you want to bluff the bully
 
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firelord24

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thanks to everyones advice. but im not an online player at all really. im talkin about live games. Im just to get a feel of what people think bout going to a table watching other players, thinking during a hand, etc... I read books and see how some pros think, but I think we could all learn steps from us non-experts, to see how evolve our thinking. The more we learn from each other, the more we grow and eventually move past the pros in thinking. So let me know what yall think.


Playing live is all about where you are playing. In Vegas its a matter if you are on or off strip. If you are on strip are you at low end or high end, and who is sitting with you. Mainly this is to try and identify those people who routinely play that game, because there will be some, and try and take some of that information for yourself.

Outside of Vegas I don't know if you will see the stratification between joints.

This is all so that you can pick up on the type of players that are at your table. Are you playing 2/4 limit? otherwise known as no foldem holdem? If so you are almost always going to get called down. Is someone playing 2/4 because there isn't a higher seat available? He's going to raise much more often with looser hands because he wants to see bigger pots.

Figure out if you are a talker, if you are then you can often get info out of people while projecting the table image you want.

Online is so different from live I can't even explian it, doesn't even feel like the same game to me.
 
M

mange

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Hey KR

Stick to the basics. Implement change. patience. postion.

Hey KR,

Good to run into you again since chating at 'brand x"

This is a fablous site.

I have had some great responses to some poker questions.

I am attemping to learn my way around here. For example, how to find the poker quiz, and how to find the Freerolls.

cya on the felts.

angie (use to be mange)
 
pokerace3454

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just 1 poker book No limit hold em theory and had shit load money which i did deposit $50,000 at poker stars start at medium stakes LOL no more than 2 tables for beginner for intermediate 6 after pro+12 tables :)
ok what ever you have deposit and start your way up.:D
 
M

mange

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There is a lots to what you say.

Here is a tip to help you make the right decision.

Everytime I make an action I do it and then move the mouse button to the other side of the screen and take my hand off the mouse.

This does two things.

1) means that you do not make impulse clicks of the button ( because the mouse is not over the icon to call and your finger is not over the mouse button )

.....I used to find that most of my leaks for impulse calls without serious thoughts to teh way the hand or opponent had played.

2) it provides time for you to consider what to do next and removes the pressure to action immediately.


This may not be the expert advise you are looking for..... but it does give you time to think through the hand and the position that you are in.

Dont under estimate this advise. There is a lots to what you say. I have acted on impulse and clicked that button so easily, and lived to regret it many time. As you said, it give you time to think about what you are doing and not act on impulse.
lol
angie
 
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SPgamer

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Getting better but knock out just before pay day...What can I do better?

Hey guys. I'm new to this forum but just was hoping to get some positive feedback. I've been playing a good bit of freerolls and lately have been getting in the top 100. my best placing was 31st which was just 1 place shy from the pool prize. What should I be doing or looking for so that I don't make a bad all-in call even when I have a strong hand? Thanks.
 
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