A hand from last night and why I hate the micros

S

Smokewood

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5NL
Hero is UTG and has about 95BB
Villain is in the HJ with about 95BB too.

Hero opens 78s (diamonds) for 3BB
Folds to Villain who calls
Folds to button who calls

Flop = Ad, Ts, 9d (so I have 4 to a flush, and 4 to a straight) pot = 11.5 blinds
Hero bets 6BB
Villain calls
Button folds

Turn is 6s (I hit my straight and now there are 2 diamonds and 2 spades on board) pot = 23.5 BB - rake

Hero bets about 18 BB
Villain calls

River is 4s
I have about a 1/3 of my money in the pot already.
I think about checking
Then I bet out a small 10BB bet

Villain raises it to 30BB

At this point I know he has a flush and i am beat.
However since it is 5NL - I go ahead and "pay to see it" because it's a freaking dollar and I spend more than that on the vending machine every day.

He turns over Q4 of spades for the river flush.

This guy called a bet from UTG with Q4s
called my 6BB flop bet with an inside straight draw
and called my 18BB turn bet with a Q high flush draw.

**** the mircos - i dont see this happening at higher levels.
:jd4:
 
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Smokewood

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Don't know why I cannot edit the post - the river was a 3s. Villain had the 4 in his hand.
 
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quant1986

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I would like to keep this hand in turn check-shove range as played.
 
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Smokewood

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I would like to keep this hand in turn check-shove range as played.



?

Are you saying I should have checked on the turn?
If he bet - you would then shove on the turn behind him?

What if he checked behind on the turn?
Check on the river too?
 
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quant1986

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Against aggressive villians who would stab your turn checking range I think this hand is perfect to check raise. If checked through, your hand is very strong that can bet one more street for value.

Against river raise, I think you find micro players almost never bluff at that spot.
 
S

Smokewood

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Against aggressive villians who would stab your turn checking range I think this hand is perfect to check raise. If checked through, your hand is very strong that can bet one more street for value.

Against river raise, I think you find micro players almost never bluff at that spot.

I'm not really following you.
I would not call this villain aggressive - more of a calling station who hit the river and then got aggressive.
 
bbennie1

bbennie1

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He got (18+23.5) :18 is 2.3:1 odds and flush draw is 4.1:1 so his implied odds were 1.8:1. 18.1x18= 32.4. Which means he got paid less on the river than his implied odds were, so it has been -EV for him. Bad net result for you, but well played.
 
Poker Orifice

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Generally it's players like this who make it profitable for us. This is a great thing about the micros!
 
PaxMundi

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I think it's a nice hand to go in a check calling range i dont think we need to cbet it that often. And if your making 2 or 3 of these calls per session it adds up to a'lot of vending machine trips ,it might even add up to an over seas trip each year.Think in terms of bb's not in terms of 10 and 20 cents and youll likely make better decisions.
 
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EarnDAStack

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Yeah I played a hand really similar to this last night also actually. You have to remember that fish making calls on the flop and turn like this are what makes us most of our money in the long run.

So far as hand breakdown, I think checking this on the flop looking to check-raise is the better play. You'll have a lot of Ax, TT and 99s here that you can split into check raise or c bet ranges depending on the type of player you're against.

On the turn, If you have any indication that villain is a fish I think you gotta charge him more to see the river, you're ahead of every hand at this point short of 78s which would be free rolling against you but there's only one combination of that and we probably have to pay the man if that is what he's holding.

The river bet won't do much for you in my opinion and will get you into spots like this when villain re-pops it. Most often villain is going to have s straight or flush draw that he is going to fold on the river or reraise you with a better hand. I don't think theres a lot of value to be made from this play. You might get the occasional fishh calling you down with an Ace or two pair maybe, but most would try getting a bet of their own into the pot with a hand like A10 or A9 in my opinion. Trips are possible but I would imagine 99 and TT would 3 bet in most cases.

I hope this breakdown helps a bit lol. I'm a micro grinder tho so this might be a bit of a case of the blind leading the blind.
 
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berryryan2488

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That's such a tough spot to be in. You bet and did everything right, but sometimes these jokers just don't fold. I'm not sure if you should have over bet when you hit the straight but it seems like he wasn't folding no matter what happened. On the river, a check would have seemed weak if he didn't have the flush, however, I have noticed that villain's will usually insta-shove when they hit big, especially on the river. It's a dead give away that they were chasing or hit a miracle river. That said, it's a tough position to be in
 
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redwards92

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Generally it's players like this who make it profitable for us. This is a great thing about the micros!
Agreed!

Also I don't agree with checking this flop and definitely not on board with checking the turn either.

Great flop for our range and we have a lot of equity but little showdown value on the flop. Checking the turn is just giving money away.
 
finaltable1

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5NL
Hero is UTG and has about 95BB
Villain is in the HJ with about 95BB too.

Hero opens 78s (diamonds) for 3BB
Folds to Villain who calls
Folds to button who calls

Flop = Ad, Ts, 9d (so I have 4 to a flush, and 4 to a straight) pot = 11.5 blinds
Hero bets 6BB
Villain calls
Button folds

Turn is 6s (I hit my straight and now there are 2 diamonds and 2 spades on board) pot = 23.5 BB - rake

Hero bets about 18 BB
Villain calls

River is 4s
I have about a 1/3 of my money in the pot already.
I think about checking
Then I bet out a small 10BB bet

Villain raises it to 30BB

At this point I know he has a flush and i am beat.
However since it is 5NL - I go ahead and "pay to see it" because it's a freaking dollar and I spend more than that on the vending machine every day.

He turns over Q4 of spades for the river flush.

This guy called a bet from UTG with Q4s
called my 6BB flop bet with an inside straight draw
and called my 18BB turn bet with a Q high flush draw.

**** the mircos - i dont see this happening at higher levels.
:jd4:


My last cash game at pokerstars, won't play there again. It sucks my MTT winnings with crazy bad beats.
NL100 9max table
Joined with min buy-in = $40
Folded 30+ hands and got JJ one the button, stack $35
UTG2 raise $3, one call, I 3bet to $10, BB behind me with $170 stack calls, original aggressor UTG2 folds, other caller also folds.
flop 10 2 2
I'm all-in with remaining $25 for $27 pot, BB insta calls.
BB called $10 preflop with K2s, diamonds... flopped a set.
 
JBGoode

JBGoode

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We actually went over this exsact spot in Study group....

Personally 78s is a little outside of my UTG open range.... maybe a short handed table I would open first to act... or a NITTY 8-9 handed table... but probably not in micros where you have a lot of call heavy play....

Regardless, as played I think your post game was good.... accept for the river, I think its gonna play much better with a check call cause of the flush heavy board.
 
Bluffzone68

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BZ
My last cash game at PokerStars, won't play there again. It sucks my MTT winnings with crazy bad beats.
NL100 9max table
Joined with min buy-in = $40
Folded 30+ hands and got JJ one the button, stack $35
UTG2 raise $3, one call, I 3bet to $10, BB behind me with $170 stack calls, original aggressor UTG2 folds, other caller also folds.
flop 10 2 2
I'm all-in with remaining $25 for $27 pot, BB insta calls.
BB called $10 preflop with K2s, diamonds... flopped a set.



Hey
I experienced a similiar had too.
I had AA and shoved all in in a MTT micro stakes, got called by a heavy stacked player with K5 C.
Flop has a 5 turn has a 5 and AA has been fried sunny side up.:)
 
Poker Orifice

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My last cash game at PokerStars, won't play there again. It sucks my MTT winnings with crazy bad beats.
NL100 9max table
Joined with min buy-in = $40
Folded 30+ hands and got JJ one the button, stack $35
UTG2 raise $3, one call, I 3bet to $10, BB behind me with $170 stack calls, original aggressor UTG2 folds, other caller also folds.
flop 10 2 2
I'm all-in with remaining $25 for $27 pot, BB insta calls.
BB called $10 preflop with K2s, diamonds... flopped a set.


This is a ridiculous post & quite frankly I feel it not only dillutes this thread but also appears to be a highjack attempt.
We don't want to hear about your 'crazy badbeats'.

I think the only aid it gives to OP's post is that it ensures them that THIS is EXACTLY why playing in the micros is going to be profitable.... when you have players buying in for 40bb's & saying they won't play on a table anymore because another loose player actually calls their raise for 30+% of effective stacks... (when this would normally be a reason for us to REALLY want to stay on THAT table... & others just like it (if we could be so lucky)).
 
finaltable1

finaltable1

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This is a ridiculous post & quite frankly I feel it not only dillutes this thread but also appears to be a highjack attempt.
We don't want to hear about your 'crazy badbeats'.

I think the only aid it gives to OP's post is that it ensures them that THIS is EXACTLY why playing in the micros is going to be profitable.... when you have players buying in for 40bb's & saying they won't play on a table anymore because another loose player actually calls their raise for 30+% of effective stacks... (when this would normally be a reason for us to REALLY want to stay on THAT table... & others just like it (if we could be so lucky)).


Hola my fan club again.

You don't want to hear, well you're reading... and actually that's a post about badbeats, so you can read Mark Twain instead of reading such posts :D:D

When you're talking about some profits at micros, you have in mind some long distances and bankroll management. That's cool that you know about such things, but back to reality, Topic Starter has played a $5 game for fun, and I've played a game at fishy table just to win another $25 to have a minimum allowed to withdraw, which is $100.
 
finaltable1

finaltable1

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This is a ridiculous post & quite frankly I feel it not only dillutes this thread but also appears to be a highjack attempt.
We don't want to hear about your 'crazy badbeats'.

I think the only aid it gives to OP's post is that it ensures them that THIS is EXACTLY why playing in the micros is going to be profitable.... when you have players buying in for 40bb's & saying they won't play on a table anymore because another loose player actually calls their raise for 30+% of effective stacks... (when this would normally be a reason for us to REALLY want to stay on THAT table... & others just like it (if we could be so lucky)).



You see, I'm not living in this world of VpIP and PFR anymore, my "bankroll" is invested in CNC machines and I don't think that it's profitable to keep any money as numbers at the poker lobby screen, it's a swamp money, while I need a boiling river of engraved wood and carved\welded\turned metal.While machines do the job, I can also play some poker, or drink coffee, or chat with You and rest of the world or do other things.

Today I have to sit near the machines, tomorrow I'll hire people and build a conveyor. So in the result I'll be fishing or jumping with a parachute while machines will work and generate profit. Can poker player do the same? I've asked myself this question years ago. No! He has to sit at the table, play and WIN or to play and advertise something that he's wearing, that's all. I deserve more than that. Don't want to be a rake generating mule for the poker site and don't want to spend my time to poker only. Poker is good during neverending process of profit generation away from the table. 100 year life is 876.000 hours, 30% is sleep, each one of us can calculate the time spent for poker, in % of possible 100 years long life or in % of average.

I feel like happy cashing out several extra K per year during past 3 years by playing freerolls and micro MTTs, cause instead of buying another CNC machine for $10K+ I can weld one after spending 2.5-3K for parts on ebay, and will enjoy the process. It's a pleasure to spend poker freebies for stepper motors, breakout boards and power supplies. Trust me:D And why do I feel happy? Because I've designed and carved so many things during this time... unlike in the past, while I was just playing poker for living like some robosapiense, spending my time at the tables without making anything useful for the society. I had the same feeling before, many years ago when websites that I've created have been replaced by newer versions and I couldn't see my products. Worldwide depression is caused by this reason, majority of humans do the job and can't see the results of their job or work as parasites like lawyers and us, poker players, creating nothing useful, big things are split into smaller processes and workers can't proudly say "I made it".

I solved this puzzle for myself, and enjoy what I'm doing, it's not a big deal when some moron flops a set w K2 vs my overpair, I can discuss this bad beat at the forum with a smile, instead of hunting him down, cause I can't afford it lol, and I also don't like to keep playing when such things happen. But in the reality I've got these money for free working on my main business, It's like I've received a donation and was unlucky, had to donate it back to the world... Have I played bad? Nope, it was just a simple case of bad luck
 
finaltable1

finaltable1

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Hey
I experienced a similiar had too.
I had AA and shoved all in in a MTT micro stakes, got called by a heavy stacked player with K5 C.
Flop has a 5 turn has a 5 and AA has been fried sunny side up.:)

AA... today been busted twice !
this morning at ACR played a step to venom $50 buy-in for $200 ticket, joined during the last minute, 18 players left, 10 tickets and $99 for 11th place. Double up with AK and several levels later was one of the two shortest stacks with huge stack as aggressor at my table. Got Aces, see a 4bb bet infront of me, and it's more than my stack, I call. He has AQclubs, vs my aces, at the river he hits both straigh and flush.
In the evening played some poker again, well it was 50c MTT at iPoker...
27 places paid, 30 left, I'm 2nd by chips. Blinds have increased from 4K to 10K till ONE player went out and 29 remained.
I'm at 4th place with 250K stack and got AKo, lost 50K chips to pocket tens.
4-5 hands later getting ACES on the BB :) one limps from early position and SB adds 0.5.
I raise to 34K chips, limper calls and it was 20% of his stack
flop was 8 high
I bet 60% of pot
He jamms,
I call
He has 99
I like it
Turn card is K
River is 9
GG Aces.
All of the short stacks at all tables have doubled up during next 10 minutes and I went out 29th... They have played for another 15-20 minutes till the bubble has ended, 27th place was just 1.89Euro. :D
 
Poker Orifice

Poker Orifice

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You see, I'm not living in this world of VpIP and PFR anymore, my "bankroll" is invested in CNC machines and I don't think that it's profitable to keep any money as numbers at the poker lobby screen, it's a swamp money, while I need a boiling river of engraved wood and carved\welded\turned metal.While machines do the job, I can also play some poker, or drink coffee, or chat with You and rest of the world or do other things.

Today I have to sit near the machines, tomorrow I'll hire people and build a conveyor. So in the result I'll be fishing or jumping with a parachute while machines will work and generate profit. Can poker player do the same? I've asked myself this question years ago. No! He has to sit at the table, play and WIN or to play and advertise something that he's wearing, that's all. I deserve more than that. Don't want to be a rake generating mule for the poker site and don't want to spend my time to poker only. Poker is good during neverending process of profit generation away from the table. 100 year life is 876.000 hours, 30% is sleep, each one of us can calculate the time spent for poker, in % of possible 100 years long life or in % of average.

I feel like happy cashing out several extra K per year during past 3 years by playing freerolls and micro MTTs, cause instead of buying another CNC machine for $10K+ I can weld one after spending 2.5-3K for parts on ebay, and will enjoy the process. It's a pleasure to spend poker freebies for stepper motors, breakout boards and power supplies. Trust me:D And why do I feel happy? Because I've designed and carved so many things during this time... unlike in the past, while I was just playing poker for living like some robosapiense, spending my time at the tables without making anything useful for the society. I had the same feeling before, many years ago when websites that I've created have been replaced by newer versions and I couldn't see my products. Worldwide depression is caused by this reason, majority of humans do the job and can't see the results of their job or work as parasites like lawyers and us, poker players, creating nothing useful, big things are split into smaller processes and workers can't proudly say "I made it".

I solved this puzzle for myself, and enjoy what I'm doing, it's not a big deal when some moron flops a set w K2 vs my overpair, I can discuss this bad beat at the forum with a smile, instead of hunting him down, cause I can't afford it lol, and I also don't like to keep playing when such things happen. But in the reality I've got these money for free working on my main business, It's like I've received a donation and was unlucky, had to donate it back to the world... Have I played bad? Nope, it was just a simple case of bad luck


So your hopes of being a professional poker player were dashed... so in the result you're gonna hijack threads & turn them into badbeat posts?

Between hands of poker I go outside & walk through the mtns. with my dogs.
I don't work. I play poker for 'fun'.

"If" OP wants to get better at poker, OP needs to learn to appreciate the 'bad' players & to feel good about a hand if they feel they've played it well. The result should mean nothing.
As poker players we should be welcoming this stuff with open wallets!
 
A

AAJovheart

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it's to your advantage in the long run that he plays bad hands
good luck next time
 
Ovuvuevuevue

Ovuvuevuevue

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Remember that bad beats are good. They keep losing players in the game.
 
finaltable1

finaltable1

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So your hopes of being a professional poker player were dashed... so in the result you're gonna hijack threads & turn them into badbeat posts?

Between hands of poker I go outside & walk through the mtns. with my dogs.
I don't work. I play poker for 'fun'.

"If" OP wants to get better at poker, OP needs to learn to appreciate the 'bad' players & to feel good about a hand if they feel they've played it well. The result should mean nothing.
As poker players we should be welcoming this stuff with open wallets!

My hooopes?
LOL, It was a good one buddy:top:

But,
How about 4 years in a row of having diamond status at pokerstrategy.com? I've earned it with rakeback and actually that's how I've started playing online poker long long time ago, I've passed their quiz and earned $50 bankroll, turned it into $800 during my first month playing cash at NL2...
Not sure if they allow visitors from the US to register or view the site now, they haven't allowed it in past. In fact pokerstrategy.com is the best resource for learning poker online, for free... But it's more like a book, people are concentrated on playing hands and reading articles there, that site teaches human to be a poker robosapiense, it's not like CardsChat, cause we can have a dialogue here and have fun. The difference between CardsChat and pokerstrategy can be clearly seen when we'll check the "premium starting hands" article here at CC. Personally I was reading it with "Oh WHAT?" smile:flute:
Isn't it funky?
Well it's good to know that you have a hobby, walking in the mountains is great, even better than diving, or fishing... for me, cause I also like hunting and observing the nature. But It's in my nature to create something, and after trying many different things, few years ago I've discovered that I like to craft things in the real world much more than to program or design things in the web. So, that's how I've started turning my hobby into a business and reduced my poker time to several hours per week during my drawing time in corel and artcam. The smell of carved oakwood is like the smell of precious cognac. :icon_chee
 
TonyTwoCheeks

TonyTwoCheeks

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"...because it's a freaking dollar and I spend more than that on the vending machine every day."


This attitude is the kiss of death and you'll never at that level if you don't change. I'm not criticizing. I suffer from this as well. It's hard playing $1-$2, $1-$3 and $1-$1-$5 live and then change gears to 10 or 25 NL online.


I sit with a stack of chips in front of me when playing online and count out my big raises and calls. Sometimes it helps me grasp how big a decision this would be in a casino where I have respect for the stack I'm playing.
 
B

Bellasdad2009

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River

Yeah thats horrible, i never understand why someone would do that. But thats why there is a river card
 
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