Was this a cooler or did I just completely misplay this?

[nameless1537]

[Note: This was supposed to be posted in the Hand Analysis section... whoops!]

I hadn't played poker in over a week and so I'm feeling a bit of rust in coming back to the online tables. So this happened:

pokerstars - $0.02 NL - Holdem - 9 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4: http://www.pokertracker.com

Hero (CO): 155 BB
BTN: 100 BB (VPIP: 17.65, PFR: 17.65, 3Bet Preflop: 20.00, hands: 18)
SB: 153 BB (VPIP: 6.67, PFR: 6.67, 3Bet Preflop: 10.00, Hands: 76)
BB: 71 BB (VPIP: 7.14, PFR: 7.14, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 14)
UTG: 100 BB (VPIP: 22.22, PFR: 15.56, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 45)
UTG+1: 38.5 BB (VPIP: 15.91, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 45)
MP: 140.5 BB (VPIP: 14.29, PFR: 4.76, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 42)
MP+1: 92.5 BB (VPIP: 4.44, PFR: 4.44, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 45)
MP+2: 83.5 BB (VPIP: 28.89, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 45)

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has Ah As
UTG raises to 3 BB, fold, fold, fold, fold, Hero raises to 9 BB, fold, fold, fold, UTG calls 6 BB

Flop : (19.5 BB, 2 players) 6d 7s Js
UTG checks, Hero bets 9.5 BB, UTG calls 9.5 BB

Turn : (38.5 BB, 2 players) 9c
UTG checks, Hero bets 18.5 BB, UTG raises to 37 BB, Hero calls 18.5 BB

River : (112.5 BB, 2 players) 2c
UTG bets 44.5 BB and is all-in, Hero ??

Spoiler

Hero calls 44.5 BB

UTG shows Tc 8c (Straight, Jack High)
(Pre 22%, Flop 19%, Turn 100%)

Hero shows Ah As (One Pair, Aces)
(Pre 78%, Flop 81%, Turn 0%)

UTG wins 194.5 BB

Here's my thought process as we went:

• I put villain on top hands like AA-TT, AK-AT since he raised 3bb UTG
• Didn't consider suited connectors under JT
• Didn't think villain hit the flop, only thought he was on flush draw
• When he check-raised turn, I thought he was just bluffing, or paired T on the board and didn't think I had anything

In hindsight, I should have seen something was fishy on the turn (still calling the raise on the turn) and then consider folding on the all-in bet on the river.

Thoughts?

 

[Gohaku94]

[Note: This was supposed to be posted in the Hand Analysis section... whoops!]

I hadn't played poker in over a week and so I'm feeling a bit of rust in coming back to the online tables. So this happened:

PokerStars - $0.02 NL - Holdem - 9 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4: http://www.pokertracker.com

Hero (CO): 155 BB
BTN: 100 BB (VPIP: 17.65, PFR: 17.65, 3Bet Preflop: 20.00, Hands: 18)
SB: 153 BB (VPIP: 6.67, PFR: 6.67, 3Bet Preflop: 10.00, Hands: 76)
BB: 71 BB (VPIP: 7.14, PFR: 7.14, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 14)
UTG: 100 BB (VPIP: 22.22, PFR: 15.56, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 45)
UTG+1: 38.5 BB (VPIP: 15.91, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 45)
MP: 140.5 BB (VPIP: 14.29, PFR: 4.76, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 42)
MP+1: 92.5 BB (VPIP: 4.44, PFR: 4.44, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 45)
MP+2: 83.5 BB (VPIP: 28.89, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 45)

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has Ah As
UTG raises to 3 BB, fold, fold, fold, fold, Hero raises to 9 BB, fold, fold, fold, UTG calls 6 BB

Flop : (19.5 BB, 2 players) 6d 7s Js
UTG checks, Hero bets 9.5 BB, UTG calls 9.5 BB

Turn : (38.5 BB, 2 players) 9c
UTG checks, Hero bets 18.5 BB, UTG raises to 37 BB, Hero calls 18.5 BB

River : (112.5 BB, 2 players) 2c
UTG bets 44.5 BB and is all-in, Hero ??

Spoiler

Hero calls 44.5 BB

UTG shows Tc 8c (Straight, Jack High)
(Pre 22%, Flop 19%, Turn 100%)

Hero shows Ah As (One Pair, Aces)
(Pre 78%, Flop 81%, Turn 0%)

UTG wins 194.5 BB

Here's my thought process as we went:

• I put villain on top hands like AA-TT, AK-AT since he raised 3bb UTG
• Didn't consider suited connectors under JT
• Didn't think villain hit the flop, only thought he was on flush draw
• When he check-raised turn, I thought he was just bluffing, or paired T on the board and didn't think I had anything

In hindsight, I should have seen something was fishy on the turn (still calling the raise on the turn) and then consider folding on the all-in bet on the river.

Thoughts?

I think the only misstake you made was betting too small on flop amd turn. 9.5 into 18.5 is so small.. bet like 13-14 for value.
He would have called anyway because people don't really care that much more but then you could bet like 30 on turn instead of 18.5 and have an easy all in on most rivers.

 

[fundiver199]

These kind of spots generally suck, because the stack to pot ratio in a 3-bet pot is often somewhat in the greyzone between, if you want to take an overpair to the filt, or maybe not so much. I think, you need to make a plan for that, already when you 3-bet. If the plan is to stack off, then 3-bet a little bit larger, and also C-bet larger on the flop.

Against someone, who open T8s UTG and then call a 3-bet out of position, you would literally be printing money by going a bit larger, and you cut down on his implied odds. Alternative if the plan is to not stack off, then check back the turn and call his river bet. Or go for the 2. street of value on a clean river card, if he check to you.

I dont like calling turn and then folding river getting better than 3:1. If you think, he has the ability to take this line on the turn as a bluff, you have to assume, he is also able to sometimes bluff the river. Its also an option to simply go all in on the turn. In that way you put him in a tough spot, if he has a draw. He is sort of priced in to calling it off, but he is making nearly zero money.

And if you dont think, he is ever doing this with a draw, then maybe go for the exploitable bet-fold. There is nothing to wrong with that at 2NL, since most people are rarely bluffing, when they raise you on the turn in a 3-bet pot, and especially not with a mini-raise. He is kind of screaming from the mountain top, that he can beat a 1 pair hand, and sure enough he could.

When you decided to bet the turn, it is theoretically correct to stack of AA though. So you actually played the hand flawless, while he made long term losing plays preflop and on the flop. So I would not beat myself up over this one. Just let the bad player have his day, math will take care of him in the long run.

 

[TheGenera1]

Fold turn. Players at micro stakes do not raise turn with less than 2pair +. You're almost always beat when passive 2nl players raise turn with just an over-pair. Sure you might bluff catch 1/10 times but it's not enough to show profit.

Key to beating 2nl is to bet bet shove unless the passive opponents tell you otherwise. If they check call, then bet for value. If facing turn or river raises just fold over-pairs and one pair type hands unless you have very specific opponent reads.

 

[fundiver199]

Fold turn. Players at micro stakes do not raise turn with less than 2pair +. You're almost always beat when passive 2nl players raise turn with just an over-pair. Sure you might bluff catch 1/10 times but it's not enough to show profit.


Key to beating 2nl is to bet bet shove unless the passive opponents tell you otherwise. If they check call, then bet for value. If facing turn or river raises just fold over-pairs and one pair type hands unless you have very specific opponent reads.

I also think, there is a bet sizing tell here. If he was bluffing, would he not just go all in on the turn for max fold equity, when there was less than a pot sized bet left? Instead he mini-raised giving us a sick price on the turn and setting it up for another sick price on the river. This really look like, he wants to get called, and at 2NL very few players are balanced in big pots.

 

[Babis VGS]

Fold in the turn everytime. Villain has at least J9s. Most likely a set. Also I would bet bigger on the flop. 14bb to 19.5 and on the turn 35 and fold to a raise.

 

[pentazepam]

The Baluga theorem: “You should strongly re-evaluate the strength of one-pair hands in the face of a raise on the turn.”

Was true then, is true now. Especially on nano- and micro-stakes.

Only exception against a bluffy manic or total clueless player that over-values top-pair.

Around 2003-2006 players under-bluffed to the extreme on the turn.

They still do on lower stakes.

No balance at all.

 

[prizzy711]

I think the only misstake you made was betting too small on flop amd turn. 9.5 into 18.5 is so small.. bet like 13-14 for value.
He would have called anyway because people don't really care that much more but then you could bet like 30 on turn instead of 18.5 and have an easy all in on most rivers.

What a loose open by UTG. Keep playing with him!!

 

[TheGenera1]

I also think, there is a bet sizing tell here. If he was bluffing, would he not just go all in on the turn for max fold equity, when there was less than a pot sized bet left? Instead he mini-raised giving us a sick price on the turn and setting it up for another sick price on the river. This really look like, he wants to get called, and at 2NL very few players are balanced in big pots.

I completely agree, well spotted.