Tenek26
Rock Star
Silver Level
My decision may seem confusing, but I heard this advice in one of the video courses of a player who won a lot of money in a tournament.
If we are not talking about the game against Neath, then we can expand our range to the Broadway game.
So, for example, we can make 4 bets with 78s and get on the board where the hands suitable for us will lie. Such as, draw a street, draw a flash, or a combination already assembled. This board is most likely not suitable for our opponent's 3-bet, and he will try to bluff, and then we will catch him.
If we are not talking about the game against Neath, then we can expand our range to the Broadway game.
So, for example, we can make 4 bets with 78s and get on the board where the hands suitable for us will lie. Such as, draw a street, draw a flash, or a combination already assembled. This board is most likely not suitable for our opponent's 3-bet, and he will try to bluff, and then we will catch him.
L
ledris
Rock Star
Silver Level
I think that when you use 4-bet, you have not to bluff. You commit a large amount of your stack, so you have to be careful when you are doing this. My opinion is that you have to 4-bet someone, if you have a pretty strange hand, or if you think that your enemies aren't enough good and they have just many outs. I think preflop you must 4-bet only with A-A, K-K and Q-Q especially in cash games.
E
EarnDAStack
Visionary
Bronze Level
In general I'll have a pretty tight 4 betting range that I'll expand as I gain more information on villain, where the open was from and then where the 3 bet was from. I'm not sure how "Balanced" my range would be but I'll usually throw in AQs, AJs, QQ and JJ as a 4 bet if I think villain is 3 betting me light which are hands I would usually just flat with and see the flop against a tighter opponent.
I'm still working on my game tho so take my advice with a grain of salt, and good luck at the tables!
I'm still working on my game tho so take my advice with a grain of salt, and good luck at the tables!
Q
qbvbsite
Rising Star
Bronze Level
If your strong hands like AA/KK 4 betting most of the time. Also, find some good spots to 4 bet bluff with suited connectors or a suited A (blocking hands like AA/AK), though don't do this too often as just to balance your strong hands.
Aballinamion
Sleeping with the Dark Lady of the Sith
Loyaler
At the micro stakes (2NLHE and 5 NLHE) 4-bet only for absolute value, meaning AA, KK and AK, nothing more. You can even remove QQ from your 4-bet range at the micros, or call more than 4-betting with QQ.
As you start to move on the chain of poker, at 10 NLHE you might try to use some 4-bet bluffs, since there are more 'thinking' players than limits below. However, the great secret is never to exaggerate your 4-bet bluffing range.
What is a balanced 4-bet range?
You are going to use the same sizing, unless you are out of position for every situation and use the same, unless you have information that Villain is weak and will pay you a more expensive 4-bet preflop, even so, don't need to go over the temples!
Using a slightly larger size out of position is better, specially when we are facing players who doesn't fold a lot to 4-bet and can be overplayed postflop easily in 4-bet pots.
When players start to fold a lot to 4-bet (this is very hard stat at the micros, because we never have the proper sample of hands, which is huge, and recreational barely never play millions of hands, so..), we must start to put up some 4-bet for bluffs, balancing and protecting our value range (and vice-versa).
I believe this way of thinking the game is more valid if utilized from 25 NLHE and farther. At lower limits if you 4-bet heavy value you rarely will be wrong.
The chemistry of balancing:
We must mix between calling and 4-betting, yes: if we 4-bet AA a 100% of times our range becomes too obvious and regulars are going to fold more to our 4-bets and we don't like it.
Let's say that sometimes we are going to call 3-bet with AA, KK and AK, specially in position, to protect hands such as QQ, JJ and TT, AQ, AJ, hands that we don't feel comfortable to 4-bet in a high frequency.
So, lemme try to be very basic here: from 25 NLHE and higher, I say until 200 NLHE, regulars are very smart and you should try to balance your 4-bet range. Let's suppose that you are 4-betting FOR VALUE only:
AA, KK, QQ and AKs and sometimes AKo
We have 18 combos of pocket pairs and 16 combos of broadways, so, we do 4-bet for value, 34 combos, total.
Our 4-bet FOR BLUFF must contain the same ammount of combos that we use for value, or maybe a little less. If we 4-bet 34 combos for value we must have 34 combos for bluff, total 68 combos we are 4-betting, this way the opponent will never know when we have "the nuts" or a "bluff".
Personally, I don't love to 4-bet a lot with QQ at cash tables, because it is almost everytime dominated by some Kx or Ax, and this sucks. Besides including QQ on our 4-bet range increases the ammount of bluffing combos we must have it, thus unbalancing our range a little.
So, I will remove part of this "loose" 4-bet range so I can bluff more safely at micro-stakes, for example:
4-bet range for VALUE: AA, KK and AKs ONLY
4-bet range for BLUFF: (it depends) you may use AQs, AJs, ATs, AxYs, the baby suited aces are great IMO, such as A5s-A2s, you can use common sense and judgmente for example, if you are 300 hands without making a 4-bet and there is a player who folds too much to 4-bet you can be a little creative and increase and add some suited connector, pocket pair or suited broadway into your 4-betting range, specially those with removal (Ax, Kx, Qx, Jx).
Regards;
Carlos 'Aballinamion' Barbosa
As you start to move on the chain of poker, at 10 NLHE you might try to use some 4-bet bluffs, since there are more 'thinking' players than limits below. However, the great secret is never to exaggerate your 4-bet bluffing range.
What is a balanced 4-bet range?
You are going to use the same sizing, unless you are out of position for every situation and use the same, unless you have information that Villain is weak and will pay you a more expensive 4-bet preflop, even so, don't need to go over the temples!
Using a slightly larger size out of position is better, specially when we are facing players who doesn't fold a lot to 4-bet and can be overplayed postflop easily in 4-bet pots.
When players start to fold a lot to 4-bet (this is very hard stat at the micros, because we never have the proper sample of hands, which is huge, and recreational barely never play millions of hands, so..), we must start to put up some 4-bet for bluffs, balancing and protecting our value range (and vice-versa).
I believe this way of thinking the game is more valid if utilized from 25 NLHE and farther. At lower limits if you 4-bet heavy value you rarely will be wrong.
The chemistry of balancing:
We must mix between calling and 4-betting, yes: if we 4-bet AA a 100% of times our range becomes too obvious and regulars are going to fold more to our 4-bets and we don't like it.
Let's say that sometimes we are going to call 3-bet with AA, KK and AK, specially in position, to protect hands such as QQ, JJ and TT, AQ, AJ, hands that we don't feel comfortable to 4-bet in a high frequency.
So, lemme try to be very basic here: from 25 NLHE and higher, I say until 200 NLHE, regulars are very smart and you should try to balance your 4-bet range. Let's suppose that you are 4-betting FOR VALUE only:
AA, KK, QQ and AKs and sometimes AKo
We have 18 combos of pocket pairs and 16 combos of broadways, so, we do 4-bet for value, 34 combos, total.
Our 4-bet FOR BLUFF must contain the same ammount of combos that we use for value, or maybe a little less. If we 4-bet 34 combos for value we must have 34 combos for bluff, total 68 combos we are 4-betting, this way the opponent will never know when we have "the nuts" or a "bluff".
Personally, I don't love to 4-bet a lot with QQ at cash tables, because it is almost everytime dominated by some Kx or Ax, and this sucks. Besides including QQ on our 4-bet range increases the ammount of bluffing combos we must have it, thus unbalancing our range a little.
So, I will remove part of this "loose" 4-bet range so I can bluff more safely at micro-stakes, for example:
4-bet range for VALUE: AA, KK and AKs ONLY
4-bet range for BLUFF: (it depends) you may use AQs, AJs, ATs, AxYs, the baby suited aces are great IMO, such as A5s-A2s, you can use common sense and judgmente for example, if you are 300 hands without making a 4-bet and there is a player who folds too much to 4-bet you can be a little creative and increase and add some suited connector, pocket pair or suited broadway into your 4-betting range, specially those with removal (Ax, Kx, Qx, Jx).
Regards;
Carlos 'Aballinamion' Barbosa
Phoenix Wright
Legend
Loyaler
In general I'll have a pretty tight 4 betting range that I'll expand as I gain more information on villain, where the open was from and then where the 3 bet was from. I'm not sure how "Balanced" my range would be but I'll usually throw in AQs, AJs, QQ and JJ as a 4 bet if I think villain is 3 betting me light which are hands I would usually just flat with and see the flop against a tighter opponent.
I'm still working on my game tho so take my advice with a grain of salt, and good luck at the tables!
Yeah, 4-betting spots are not usually places you want to bluff. If I 4-bet, then it is usually the hands you mentioned. I rarely 4-bet though. Even with AA, I typically prefer to just smooth call and potentially get more callers behind me to increase the pot - especially if the table is playing loose. I'll probably value bet the flop if I still like my chances, but I seldom 4-bet because I want to keep more players in early (for more chips/players in the pot) with the ideal situation being forcing them out closer to showdown so I can be getting a little extra value from each of them along the way.
It is a play-style thing and I'll certainly mix up my play, but this is my default thinking for this spot.
Misaki
Visionary
Silver Level
actually on nl5 zoom 4betting a lot vs sb 3bet on wide ranges is pretty profitable. People fold a lot at sb vs 4bets.
Aballinamion
Sleeping with the Dark Lady of the Sith
Loyaler
Hey Misaki, good morning and thanks for your attention. I see you enjoy Dragon Ball, I was a great fan too when I was younger, nice "anime".
You are right, we can be doing a lot of 4-bet/Steal in situations where we have dynamic ranges and weak players involved in these positions:
CO, BTN, SB and BB.
We can do it even at 2 NLHE and be profitable, start to 4-bet light, for instance, BTN x CO, SB x BTN, BB x SB, BB x BTN, SB x CO, BB x CO, etc. However we must have a decent sample of hands before starting 4-betting light because at 2 NLHE many players are simply going over the top and 5-betting/Pushing versus 4-bet a bunch of crap such as AQ, AJ, sometimes AT, all the suited aces, some crazy maniacs a bunch of pocket pairs and so on. Anyways, this is a very advanced topic and I didn't mention because it was not on the initial question/thread.
When we start to play at 2 NLHE it is ideal if we 4-bet only for value. When we have a decent sample of hands played in the field we might start applying some 4-bet bluffs and begin to print money, because all the players simply fold too much to 4-bet.
Like "Splitsuit" said on his video quoted a few posts ago, we don't want to 4-bet AA and get a lot of folds, so our 4-bets will be more efficient when they are for bluff, with a light range and with AA, KK, when the player simply pays too much.
Thank you very much again, have a nice day!
Regards;
Carlos 'Aballinamion' Barbosa
Dailon Arroyo Blandon
Legend
Bronze Level
The "4-bet" bet is not to be experimenting since normally there will be a very large pot ...! For this reason in my personal case I only do it with hands like "" AA, KK, AK "... and depending on the opponent I could sometimes make a BLUFF ...!
MikeCarasone
Legend
Platinum Level
If I am 4 betting I am usually holding a very good holding such as AA,AK, KK, or QQ. Most likely willing to go all in if facing a 5bet shove. Obv there can be isolated hands where the villain shoving over the top is only doing so with AA and I do not hold aces will I ever contemplate folding. (Which is an extremely rare situation after 4 betting.
L
Larry Sanders
Rising Star
Silver Level
At micro-stakes, I 4 Bet what I consider my top 8 hands. Of course, against tighter opponents, I will only use 4 of those hands. It is strictly for value. So many players misuse or misunderstand 3 Betting to the point of silliness. And a lot of times when you 4 Bet them, they will over shove their entire range. As far as 4-Bet bluffing, it can be effective in the late stages of a tournament as a big stack against other big stacks or the higher end of a mid stack, especially close to various bubbles. (In the money or Final table bubbles).
Evan Jarvis
Legend
Platinum Level
Depends how deep the stacks are and how aggressive the opponent is
VS players who 3-bet light a lot using 'blockers' to 4bet is great, especially if your hand is suited
As some previous posters mentioned, if you are deep you can add more disguised hands to the mix like 78s, but generally you prefer to have position in these spots
If stacks are shallow and someone is 3-betting light you can 4-bet all in with pairs, suited aces, and your better broadways. That's more for tournament play though it largely comes down to who your opponent is and what their playstyle is.
Hope that helps!
