3betting question

[Mitchel Cornodelli]

When people say you should always only be 3betting for value or bluff, then what do you do in this example:

You have a10 in the sb and the btn who is unknown opens 3bb.
You can either fold, but a10 is a strong hand 3 handed and the btn steal is probably weak, and now im stuck between calling and 3betting. I get so many mixed messages from tips from watching videos etc. and what i think is:
You should call because a10 is a lot better than btn's range and 3betting will just fold out his worse hands and you will get called/4bet against his better hands. But then again if you call in the sb then you are out of position in the hand and you could get squeezed by the bb and if you miss the flop then you are going to have to just fold.
So call or 3bet??

Same thing for e.g. you open 3x utg with ajs and get 3bet from the btn (who is known to 3bet bluff often in position). AJs is probably quite better than btns range so calling keeps in his bluffing range but you are out of position so you should 4bet but that will get 5bet by stronger and fold out worse.

Basically: Is it worth playing out of position (choosing to call rather than 3bet/4bet) to keep in an opponents bluffing range??4

Thank you

 

[luiaguila]

You should just call and try to squeeze that player instead of thinking you're always behind in the hand many of those players will want to continue making continuation bets is a matter of know they read and so get a lot of those players in micro limits playing abc

 

[Jreece18]

Micro stakes don't start restealing without a read. You havent specified FR or 6max, but FR I'm also folding a10 in the blinds without a read and also folding AJs UTG in FR (not in 6max). Limit calling OOP. Play in position as much as possible.

What stakes and game type?

 

[omote23]

Yeah, I don't want to be faced situation like your example, which is quite complicated. especially aganist unknown. I faced this situation A LOT when I play MSS on even 2NL.
I think We have similar problem..

 

[DrazaFFT]

First you dont wanna ever cold call at SB, specially if reg is sitting behind you at BB and he knows that you have mediocre hand cuz you havent 3bet and he knows that btn is wide which makes him a perfect spot to squeeze pretty wide. That might not happen often at 2 and 5nl but why you wanna get bad habit that you would have a hard time to shake off later...

At mss everything is pretty simpler tan at full stack, you have a 3bet range that is polarized (at all positions but at SB it looks bit different cuz you wont have CC range), polarized means that your range contains of value hands and bluff hands. things are simple you 3bet and get 4bet, if your hand was value you stackoff (at mss 4bet is most of the time allin) if your 3bet hand was bluff you fold... At 100bb it involves one more round of 4bet and 5 bet where you also have polarized ranges but it gets bit more complicated, and for that i would strongly recommend donkr articles about 3betting, it will clear some fog around it for most situations...

 

[Zelengorov]

If you have a read on this player, that he often trying to steal the blinds, you should 3bet.

 

[fletchdad]

Never play bloated pots OOP if you can help it, unless you have a legit reason. With AJs from UTG, I MAY smooth call a 3bet from BTN, but this depends on how I see BTN. Lots of factors to be considered here. But depending on BTN, you have a number of options post flop, but this will depend on your ability to play post flop. Your raise from UTG should signal strength so how you proceed will also depend on how comfortable ou feel playing 3bet pots OOP post flop......

I am 3 betting AT vs BTN raises a lot, and, as Draza said, sometimes it is a bluff, and sometimes for value. Again, it depends on how you see BTN. There is no one size fits all answer. But just calling raises OOP with semi-decent hands can get you in situations that are harder than you need to make them. Raising can make things a lot clearer. And, you get info on your opponent.

Just read the post below mine, AJ in full ring UTG vs 3bet, well, I am folding a lot there. AJs, maybe not, AJo almost always, unless BTN is a maniac agro. My post was regarding 6max....

 

[Sil3ntness]

When people say you should always only be 3betting for value or bluff, then what do you do in this example:

You have a10 in the sb and the btn who is unknown opens 3bb.
You can either fold, but a10 is a strong hand 3 handed and the btn steal is probably weak, and now im stuck between calling and 3betting. I get so many mixed messages from tips from watching videos etc. and what i think is:
You should call because a10 is a lot better than btn's range and 3betting will just fold out his worse hands and you will get called/4bet against his better hands.

It was already mentioned, but cold calling from the small blind can actually be pretty bad. Like already mentioned again, BB knows most likely you are weak and the BU is also weak so this is a perfect spot for a dead money squeeze. I feel like only in rare cases you can cold call in the SB. For example you know button is a maniac and will pay off your strong hands. Or if the BB is a fishy player that will pay you off if you have great implied odds. Other than that, it's either 3 bet or fold. Cold calling is usually the worst option

But then again if you call in the sb then you are out of position in the hand and you could get squeezed by the bb and if you miss the flop then you are going to have to just fold.
So call or 3bet??

3B or fold IMO

Same thing for e.g. you open 3x utg with ajs and get 3bet from the btn (who is known to 3bet bluff often in position). AJs is probably quite better than btns range so calling keeps in his bluffing range but you are out of position so you should 4bet but that will get 5bet by stronger and fold out worse.

Against a nitty unknown ESPECIALLY full ring, AJs you probably want to fold. Against a regular that is known to squeeze you can evalute based off their perceived range... but yeah at that point it's probably better to A) Play in position or B) Move to a different table where you don't have to be exploited by a decent reg.


Basically: Is it worth playing out of position (choosing to call rather than 3bet/4bet) to keep in an opponents bluffing range??

Read above comment

Thank you

I bolded all my replies to your questions in your quote.

 

[dejan85]

is bad choise to tribet with A10,you shouldjuse call,you never know other player hand ,I Only re raise or tribet when I have AQ,OR stronger....

 

[fletchdad]

is bad choise to tribet with A10,you shouldjuse call,you never know other player hand ,I Only re raise or tribet when I have AQ,OR stronger....

You really should have a wider 3bet range. 3bets are not just used when you are strong.


Of course, this means you have to know why you are 3betting.....

 

[TeUnit]

AT is a negative implied odds hand and you are out of position against an unknow villan at unknown stack depth....think i would drop it until i had some feel or enough stats to know what kind of player the villan is

i would caution that the 3bet stats take a long to converge...ie you will need a bunch of hands for them to become meaningful

 

[setatih]

I think, it all depends on your playing style. Most recently I viewed EPT so there and with 36 was 3-bet. Its looking very nice.

When people say you should always only be 3betting for value or bluff, then what do you do in this example:

You have a10 in the sb and the btn who is unknown opens 3bb.
You can either fold, but a10 is a strong hand 3 handed and the btn steal is probably weak, and now im stuck between calling and 3betting. I get so many mixed messages from tips from watching videos etc. and what i think is:
You should call because a10 is a lot better than btn's range and 3betting will just fold out his worse hands and you will get called/4bet against his better hands. But then again if you call in the sb then you are out of position in the hand and you could get squeezed by the bb and if you miss the flop then you are going to have to just fold.
So call or 3bet??

Same thing for e.g. you open 3x utg with ajs and get 3bet from the btn (who is known to 3bet bluff often in position). AJs is probably quite better than btns range so calling keeps in his bluffing range but you are out of position so you should 4bet but that will get 5bet by stronger and fold out worse.

Basically: Is it worth playing out of position (choosing to call rather than 3bet/4bet) to keep in an opponents bluffing range??4

Thank you

 

[Sneaky Feet]

It does depend on a few things but are we talking A10 suited or off suit? A10 suited is a 3bet, A10o is a fold against a button open.

 

[Gurusn]

I agree with the last comment )

 

[PokerGrinder]

You should do this to squeeze, especially in position. It's a great power play if you know how to use it wisely. Ofcourse, you should know the players on the table.

 

[Aaron Soto]

If there is 4-betting or 5-betting going on I can almost assure it is Aces or Kings. And at minimum AK or QQ. In 6 ring max A10 is always worth a 3bb call from the SB. If there is a re-raise from the BB then it is a easy fold. I would suggest not re-raising.

Here is why, if you re-raise you give your opponent the chance to 5-bet in which case you now have to fold with out seeing the flop. (Depending on what kind of player you are)

If you re-raise, it is a likely chance your opponent is still going to call since he already has pot odds (depending on raise amount) in which case you now will most likely have to make a continuation bet.

If you call it is 1 in 3 you hit the flop. If you miss your only out a 2.5BB.

Always go for the safer option is the way I look at it. And be very careful if you did make an Ace on the flop. A10 is not a good hand I hate to say it. It's kicker is way to weak. That is just my opinion.

 

[Mitchel Cornodelli]

Micro stakes don't start restealing without a read. You havent specified FR or 6max, but FR I'm also folding a10 in the blinds without a read and also folding AJs UTG in FR (not in 6max). Limit calling OOP. Play in position as much as possible.

What stakes and game type?

5nl and 6 max