2nl to 25nl

[TheGenera1]

Frankly, I do not have the ability to have a good bankroll by direct deposit, since I live in poverty. My whole bankroll is formed from those drops of cents that I win in freerolls. This is not enough, but such are the realities. I envy those who can afford to just make deposits and play in paid tournaments.

My bankrolls have all been created by depositing less than $30 at a time and built by starting at 2nl cash games. For a few years in a row I've deposited about $20 and run it up to $6/700 and cashed out. So, perhaps maybe you should focus on your poker skills, maybe you can do the same you don't need to deposit a lot.

 

[Mercurius]

Bankroll around $520 now. Recovered from my swing and made some profit on top. Thinking of trying 25nl again, but this time I'm setting myself a ONE buyin limit. And, I'll only play one table of 25nl this time and the others I'll split between 16nl and 10nl, which ever has more fish at the table when I'm playing.

Will let you all know how it goes. Wish me luck. Second time lucky!

Nice work man!

Been on a painful downswing too for the last week but finally turned the corner. Managed to only lose 4 buyins despite running into set over set, missing every draw, losing sessions everyday haha.

Now back on the move and closing in on my target bankroll for another shot at 16NL. 1 table mixed in with some lower stakes and a heavy focus on the higher limit table is def the way to go

 

[TheGenera1]

Thanks dude, hope your downswing gets better. I've been mixing in 25nl and it's not going great so far, keep running into coolers or losing set v flush etc.

Results so far, I'm steadily increasing the bankroll despite 25nl not going well for me.

 

[Mercurius]

Thanks dude, hope your downswing gets better. I've been mixing in 25nl and it's not going great so far, keep running into coolers or losing set v flush etc.

Results so far, I'm steadily increasing the bankroll despite 25nl not going well for me.

Cheers, yeah I’ve turned it around now and back at $350 and mixing in one 16NL table with my 10NLs. Doing fine on the 16NLs now, making good folds as not feeling the BRM pressure as much but also getting it in good.

Hopefully hit $400 by end of week and move up fully having done a month or so at 10NL trying to break through.

Also mixing in low stakes tourneys (lots of satellites into decent buyins) - they’re pretty soft and so that’s complementing my cash games.


With your push to 25NL, you’ll be fine! I seem to get the same where you hit some bad beat every time you step up (mine was 33 shoving against my QQ overpair all in on flop and somehow running out a straight 2-6 lol) - just see it for what it is and keep playing your game. That first double up really settles you and then it feels like you’ve “arrived” at the level. I actually find there’s more people willing to donate their stack to you as you move up (unchecked aggression) so you just have to bide your time and show respect / get out of the way of the solid players when they attack.

Chart looking solid!! Keep at it

 

[fundiver199]

Just for the record satallites are a really bad way to build a bankroll, because you are almost per definition not using correct bankroll management, when you play them. If you want to build a bankroll playing tournaments, you should buy in directly for no more than 1% of your bankroll, and you should focus on those with small or medium fields.

 

[Mercurius]

Just for the record satallites are a really bad way to build a bankroll, because you are almost per definition not using correct bankroll management, when you play them. If you want to build a bankroll playing tournaments, you should buy in directly for no more than 1% of your bankroll, and you should focus on those with small or medium fields.

They play incredibly soft and people have no sense of ICM and bust themselves out on the bubble so my qualification rate is high. The satellite buyin level I use is <1% of bankroll even if the target isn’t so minimal impact / bankroll risk, but the outcomes in the target are meaningful and justify the time investment.

Tourneys for me are more to mix things up and have some “fun” / take shots, whereas cash is my day to day grind where I’m more serious on BRM.

If tourney was my bread and butter grind then agree but given I play maybe 3 or 4 a week, have no interest in grinding through a $2.50 180-man SnG for a average final table cash of $30 (Given likely to only be ITM 25% or less).

I’d rather take a couple of shots a week at a $2k pay day that makes a material step change in my bankroll and allows me to start playing 50NL or 100NL

 

[fundiver199]

The satellite buyin level I use is <1% of bankroll even if the target isn’t so minimal impact / bankroll risk, but the outcomes in the target are meaningful and justify the time investment.

It is the target tournament, which determine bankroll requirement, not the satellite. If you dont follow that, you are basically buying lottery tickets, and its a bit like withdrawing your winnings to spend them on an evening out. It will delay the process of moving up, and if you hit a big win in a tournament, you will move up because of that, and not because you are beating the cash game. So most likely you will get crushed at 50NL/100NL, because your skill set is not ready. Of course if you are mainly playing for fun, none of this matter, but then just be honest with yourself about it and set a budget

 

[TheGenera1]

I remember when I won back to back 990man hyper turbos for ONE entry to Sunday million back when it cost $200+ dollars. Feel I used all my tournament luck in my lifetime winning those. Think about it. Back to back 990 man hyper turbo where winner takes all.

 

[Mercurius]

It is the target tournament, which determine bankroll requirement, not the satellite. If you dont follow that, you are basically buying lottery tickets, and its a bit like withdrawing your winnings to spend them on an evening out. It will delay the process of moving up, and if you hit a big win in a tournament, you will move up because of that, and not because you are beating the cash game. So most likely you will get crushed at 50NL/100NL, because your skill set is not ready. Of course if you are mainly playing for fun, none of this matter, but then just be honest with yourself about it and set a budget

I’ve seen it said before that it’s based on the target - what’s the logic, that you’re playing above your skill level if you aren’t rolled for the tournament?

Depends if you equate starting bankroll with skill to an extent if that’s the case? I.e is a 100NL player better than a 10NL player with the same # of hands played by virtue of putting up a few $k starting bankroll vs someone who decided to build from scratch? Possibly not

The way I view BRM (maybe not the textbook view) is that you need to play at a level where you can’t be wiped out by variance and that you aren’t playing poorly (or tilting) due to the money at stake.

Buying into satellites for 0.3% of my roll is no different to buying direct entry for 1% of my roll as long as I qualify 1 in 3 times for the target - my thought process at least. Now granted my sat qualification maybe 10-20% over a larger sample but the increased payout level of the target should compensate and end up net nil or +EV as long as I’m not totally out of my depth in the targets? Agree?

I play poker to improve my skills but the ultimate aim is to play at the highest level possible and you won’t reach that in a reasonable timeframe without pushing outside of the standard BRM initially. When you’re at a sizeable bankroll and are playing mid to high stakes then having a bigger cushion makes sense as moving down levels would be mentally tougher than it is to step back from NL25 to NL10 for example.

I also think BRM is more important if you’re particularly emotional or a gambler and at risk of blowing your roll (like when I see people on here do well and turn 50 into 500 but then blow it on a few Sunday million entries and go bust...)

Clearly even if I got a decent cash I wouldn’t go into 100NL and be crushing and I’d have to play at a range of stakes in between to maintain some level of win rate initially!

 

[Mercurius]

Sorry to hijack your thread Genera1!!

There’s a few decent contributors in here so enjoy the chat but will look to set up my own soon haha!

 

[TheGenera1]

Haha it's ok mate, ill post when I have something to post and it will go back on topic. Until then, chat away.

 

[fundiver199]

Buying into satellites for 0.3% of my roll is no different to buying direct entry for 1% of my roll as long as I qualify 1 in 3 times for the target - my thought process at least. Now granted my sat qualification maybe 10-20% over a larger sample but the increased payout level of the target should compensate and end up net nil or +EV as long as I’m not totally out of my depth in the targets? Agree?

Most satellites pay less than 10% of the field, so there is no way, you are going to qualify 1 in 3 times. It is however true, that you can reduce your bankroll requirement somewhat, if you have a positive ROI in the satellite. If your ROI in satellites is 20%, then you can play 12$ tournaments with a bankroll of 1.000$ rather than 10$ tournaments, if you buy in directly.

However this is not, what most people do. They play satellites to 12$ tournaments with a bankroll of 100$ or 200$, if the satellite price is 1$ for example. I am just not a big fan of satellites in general, but if you enjoy them and only play a few a weak, its not going to be a big deal

 

[fundiver199]

I play poker to improve my skills but the ultimate aim is to play at the highest level possible and you won’t reach that in a reasonable timeframe without pushing outside of the standard BRM initially.

This one I really disagree with. To play a certain level like 100NL you need a sufficient bankroll, but you also need sufficient skills, if you want to win. And gaining the skills realistically take more time than building the bankroll. If for instance you want 5.000$ or 50BI, then there are faster ways to earn that money than by playing online poker. At least if you live in a rich country.

So realistically there is no point in playing micro stakes games to "build a bankroll", unless you live in a country with extremely low wages. For the rest of us its either for practice or fun, and if we happen to win some money in the process, that is just an added benefit.

 

[Mercurius]

Most satellites pay less than 10% of the field, so there is no way, you are going to qualify 1 in 3 times. It is however true, that you can reduce your bankroll requirement somewhat, if you have a positive ROI in the satellite. If your ROI in satellites is 20%, then you can play 12$ tournaments with a bankroll of 1.000$ rather than 10$ tournaments, if you buy in directly.

However this is not, what most people do. They play satellites to 12$ tournaments with a bankroll of 100$ or 200$, if the satellite price is 1$ for example. I am just not a big fan of satellites in general, but if you enjoy them and only play a few a weak, its not going to be a big deal

Fair - I tend to play the ones with 20% payout ($1 into $5 etc) and often buy in late so only need to come in top 30% of remaining field. Find it works well as the fields are so weak and people bubble out so win rate decently high.

Agree on not doing the raffles where it’s a 1% shot at a Sunday million ticket.

Take your point on the bankroll building, think I’m definitely in a rush and need to be more long term with more achievable steps in between.

 

[TheGenera1]

Well, since I'm actually playing 25nl now, this thread has kinda hit its mark! Never thought I'd actually make it. Although, Im not playing four tables of 25 atm, just 1-2. Ultimately, my goal now is to play four tables of 50n with a bankroll of 100 buy ins.

Big win today, up $53.

 

[Mercurius]

Well, since I'm actually playing 25nl now, this thread has kinda hit its mark! Never thought I'd actually make it. Although, Im not playing four tables of 25 atm, just 1-2. Ultimately, my goal now is to play four tables of 50n with a bankroll of 100 buy ins.

Big win today, up $53.

Nice work man! Keep it up

 

[fundiver199]

Fair - I tend to play the ones with 20% payout ($1 into $5 etc

This obviously makes a difference. Where I play, most satellites pay less than 10% of the field.

 

[fundiver199]

Well, since I'm actually playing 25nl now, this thread has kinda hit its mark! Never thought I'd actually make it. Although, Im not playing four tables of 25 atm, just 1-2. Ultimately, my goal now is to play four tables of 50n with a bankroll of 100 buy ins.

Congrats and well done

 

[TheGenera1]

ROAD TO 50nl with 50 buy ins Begins! (Road to $2500)

Thanks dude! From now on, ill just post weekly updates with my bankroll and perhaps some hand analysis.

So shall we say, every Sunday, will post updates with a graph.

Graph filtered for Year 2020 and 2nl, 5nl, 10nl, 25nl, 50nl Full Ring (no zoom)

Sunday 1: Bankroll $708 including Rakeback/bonuses approx $20

 

[Chicungulla]

Any advice I want to start playing cash which levels do you recommend

 

[TheGenera1]

Good profit

Thank you

Any advice I want to start playing cash which levels do you recommend

I would suggest starting at 2nl. It's nothing like tournaments and takes some adjusting to.

 

[TheGenera1]

This hand needs an honourable mention

 

[hatpokertucks]

hi there

Hi, how are you?

I saw you on Stars last night - that was me getting the full house with kj.

I'm not playing much poker at the moment, but have still gone thru the $1k barrier at nl25. I'm studying the game more at the moment. I want to get to nl100 by the end of the year. Crazy as it might sound, I've bought piosolver.

hope you achieve it at 50nl...

 

[TheGenera1]

Ah yeah that was you! Of course, I wasn't even paying attention or I'd have noticed that. Had some fun last night, tried to pull off some large bluffs, using common sense and blockers. First one went well, next two cost me a stack and a half, but that's ok. When I saw their holdings I knew I took the correct line and they just got very lucky. Even though it's not profitable to run those sorts of bluffs at micro stakes, I thought it was worth me trying it out, just to condition myself for higher stakes.

Congratulations for passing the $1k mark, that's a great milestone to achieve. I think 100nl is a fine goal, my goal is only 50nl because my pokertracker is only small stakes version that I bought in like 2010 or something.

Be careful with Pio though, don't play too GTO imo as I've read that people only really start playing a balanced strategy at 200nl and above. But primarily, 400nl and above. Use it to figure out how hands hit flops and some advanced maths, but still look to exploit players. Good luck

 

[hatpokertucks]

Ah yeah that was you! Of course, I wasn't even paying attention or I'd have noticed that. Had some fun last night, tried to pull off some large bluffs, using common sense and blockers. First one went well, next two cost me a stack and a half, but that's ok. When I saw their holdings I knew I took the correct line and they just got very lucky. Even though it's not profitable to run those sorts of bluffs at micro stakes, I thought it was worth me trying it out, just to condition myself for higher stakes.

Congratulations for passing the $1k mark, that's a great milestone to achieve. I think 100nl is a fine goal, my goal is only 50nl because my pokertracker is only small stakes version that I bought in like 2010 or something.

Be careful with Pio though, don't play too GTO imo as I've read that people only really start playing a balanced strategy at 200nl and above. But primarily, 400nl and above. Use it to figure out how hands hit flops and some advanced maths, but still look to exploit players. Good luck

Thanks for the advice. We're absolutely on the same wavelength about GTO. I bought PIO because it gives all the data for flop c-betting (cbet frequency, betsizing, range and hand equities etc). I plan to spend time away from the table constructing cbet ranges for different board textures. I'm already bluffing headsup if I think I have range advantage. I want to get the frequencies and ratios right.

All the best with your journey to 50NL. I'm sure I'll see you on the tables soon