This is a discussion on 2bb Open Raise within the online poker forums, in the Cash Games section; I'm seeing a large amount of olayers at micros nowadays using 2.5x and even 2x open raise sizes. I just talked to someone who's done a |
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2bb Open Raise |
#1
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2bb Open Raise
I'm seeing a large amount of olayers at micros nowadays using 2.5x and even 2x open raise sizes.
I just talked to someone who's done a lot of solver work and they told me anything higher than a 2bb open raise is losing EV. This was solved assuming 5% rake. Of course this probably applied to nosebleed stakes more than anything. What are your thoughts on this? Is there any point in using smaller raise sizes (alomg with a wider open range) at micros?
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Similar Threads for: 2bb Open Raise | ||||
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Open raise >3BBs | 9 | February 5th, 2020 7:25 PM | Tournament Poker |
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Hi. This sounds interesting. Have you got a reference to the work that has been done on this? Would be nice to get a link and read the study. R
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Not a study per se, but here it is. It's the guy who made Zenith poker, I asked him if he's got 3bb open raise ranges on his website and he said it's -EV compared to minraise. zenith.JPG I asked on the Run it Once forums and was told these ranges are quite solid and are very similar to what Monkersolver puts out. Would still be nice to hear some opinions to back this up though. It's great something like this is free.
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Problem is that when you raise 2x (which should have a wider range than 3x), you can get called more often and play multiway pot with marginal hands and and face more tough decisions to maximize the EV.
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2bb Open Raise
Are they suggesting that pokers new standard open should be 2bb now? I think if that happens we would see 4-5 players going to each flop. Drastically reducing the winning odds of each hand. Also, are the solver results talking about Early Position opens in isolation? Or 2bb opens from anywhere? Surely CO and BTN EVs should be higher.
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Micro Cash & SNG Grinder - Dublin, Ireland. Graphs & Blog: https://ragequitpoker.blogspot.com Tweets to: http://Twitter.com/RagequitPoker
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re: Poker & 2bb Open Raise
I agree this is 100% true at micros. However in my opinion the reason it works is because if you do get a multiway pot like that, now the blinds can squeeze wide (because the open ranges are wide) as an exploit which will just discourage overcalling The only surprise to me is the reduced fold equity of a 2bb open despite there being rake, you'd think a bigger size would make more sense with rake. It's as if all the players have a mutual agreement to play nice with each other and that happens to be their GTO solution lol. The results are 2bb for all the positions (but I think I've only looked at 6max positions, perhaps very EP is a different size)
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#7
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Couple of thoughts.... The math should be the same at micros or nosebleeds. But in micro stakes you get more fishy calls. It's the 5% rake that is hard to beat. It kills me everytime I'm chopping with my opponent. To me a min raise in NL or PL is problematic in micro stakes because you will get completely speculative callers who just think 2 BB is cheap. One player calls and then the next player thinks he's price in lol. You might as well be playing a Limit game because you haven't raised more. When playing cash micros I raise 2.5x when opening. I want action for my good hands - but I also want to thin the field a little bit. Good luck !
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#8
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Let me just say, at micro stakes, you can easily open 2.5x for your marginal hands that you don't want to call a 3bet with and open 3/4x with your hands that you'd call a 3bet with it. It's SUPER exploitable, but I've been doing it at micro stakes for ages.
Fish will always be fish, and they don't pay attention to open sizes. Regs will catch on soon enough, especially if it's not at Zoom tables, but I would argue that you shouldn't be targetting regs for your large win rates anyway. And, if there aren't enough fish at the table then you need to work on your table selection better. Will just add, I don't always do this every time. I vary it up per session just in case someone is being super observant.
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#9
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#10
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the openings depend on the size of the stack and the position at the table, with the position open I open x2 x2.5, from the position of the steel to x3.
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#11
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I do believe this is a matter of the game you are in, if you’re in an extremely fishy game then raising 5xbb In most positions (if you will get called by fish) with a tight range is going to prove profitable. Let’s say you sit at a table where everyone is extremely tight then this strategy is not going to work at all the same because you’re AA aren’t going to get called nearly as much so you have to open you’re range up, reduce bet sizing to induce calls and have a stronger post flop play. That is my view upon this, I’d love for somebody to highlight any flaws within the strategy I propose. All in all my answer to this question would be, it completely depends on the type of game you are in and finding the most +ev plays GL at the tables
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#12
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re: Poker & 2bb Open Raise
It is very tempting to look for "one size fits all", but what works on one table does not necessarily work on another, let alone on another stakes level. Play should be adjusted based on the mistakes opponents make
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#13
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This has always intrigued me. In micros, some estrucutures for me is impracticable, because you supply for your opponent a chance to pay with a bad cards and has a great flop.
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Interesting to know. I'm currently doing 2.5x, but almost everyone on NL2 does 3x. It is complicated to do 2x because if I have an medium hand, they will give me 3bet with anything, and if I have a strong hand AA, KK, QQ, I can even take a 3bet pre-flop, but if I 4bet, they fold.
So, I'm thinking of opening 3x with just AA KK QQ ..
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Similar Threads for: 2bb Open Raise > Texas Hold'em Poker | ||||
Thread | Replies | Last Post | Forum | |
Open raise >3BBs | 9 | February 5th, 2020 7:25 PM | Tournament Poker |