10NL,25NL VS 100NL, 200 NL

[Desiatpoker]

Why should I chose 10NL or 25NL VS 100NL or 200NL?
Why Im asking this, because I find its too much hard work in 10NL or 25NL and all you make few dollor every hour now let's say I have a roll to play 100 or 200NL should I play that instead because to be honest why not put that hard work into big money game vs little money. I'm just asking others here because maybe someone been there done that. 30BB roll. I know if you new and want to learn smake 10NL or less good for practice but very hard work

 

[Misaki]

losing all your money on nl10/nl25 with your approach won't hurt you like you would play nl100/nl200.

let's be honest. You can't win at poker without hard work. And i'm pretty sure they will crush you on nl100/nl200. Just start from lower limit and improve your game constanly

 

[Desiatpoker]

losing all your money on nl10/nl25 with your approach won't hurt you like you would play nl100/nl200.

let's be honest. You can't win at poker without hard work. And i'm pretty sure they will crush you on nl100/nl200. Just start from lower limit and improve your game constanly

I understand its hard work and that's why I think maybe do that hard work on stakes where you can make decent money. Anyways when you say they will crush me what do you mean and how do you know?

 

[Misaki]

I understand its hard work and that's why I think maybe do that hard work on stakes where you can make decent money. Anyways when you say they will crush me what do you mean and how do you know?

I mean that if you just ask that kind of questions it means that you are not so expierenced player. So it's impossible for you to beat higher stakes. You won't have even a chance to learn something useful because they will just take your money faster than you think. That approach "earning more money on higher limit" will give you opposite result. You won't just earn anything and I'm pretty sure of that. The reality will show you that you need to play on lower limits first if you want to earn money on higher limits. It takes times, it takes a lot of hard work and not everybody have a chance to beat limits like nl100+. It's not as easy as people think. Unless you are a rich guy and losing thousands of dollars won't hurt you. It's even better to hire a coach first if you really want to start from higher limits. But still I'm pretty sure any coach will advice you to start from lower limits.

 

[Desiatpoker]

I mean that if you just ask that kind of questions it means that you are not so expierenced player. So it's impossible for you to beat higher stakes. You won't have even a chance to learn something useful because they will just take your money faster than you think. That approach "earning more money on higher limit" will give you opposite result. You won't just earn anything and I'm pretty sure of that. The reality will show you that you need to play on lower limits first if you want to earn money on higher limits. It takes times, it takes a lot of hard work and not everybody have a chance to beat limits like nl100+. It's not as easy as people think. Unless you are a rich guy and losing thousands of dollars won't hurt you. It's even better to hire a coach first if you really want to start from higher limits. But still I'm pretty sure any coach will advice you to start from lower limits.

I think what I was asking if someone ever done this before. I'm building my roll from sngs and playing mtt like $33,$22,$5.50 games and it's all going good but I want to play cash and every time I play low stakes I loss and I have tried 100NL and 200NL only 2 or 3 times and I won decent. So that why I was asking really I suck at little game as I dnt feel so motivated playing in cents so just asking about other people's experience if someone did go through this stage I mean there will be someone out there in same shoes.

 

[Alucard]

games get easier 200NL+ imo. Maybe not stars zoom ofc. But games run a lot loose & there are more gambling type players

 

[Desiatpoker]

Like we make big money when we make our hand and also other player make there's but weaker then us and we get 3 Street value or AA vs KK pre allins or other examples so why not do it at big stakes. Yes we will loss big but we also win big. And Yes we need to work hard in our game. And I feel there is alot of effort and hard work goes into. 10NL OR 25NL also. If I flop a nut flush I rather have it on 1-2 table then 10NL or 25NL. Just my opinion. But BR most important

 

[pentazepam]

If you think it gets easier the higher you get obviously move up.

You are wrong but you seem so stubborn that you have to learn it yourself.

Games over 100NL are very few online today. Why do you think that is?

Don't you think a lot of relatively poor Russians and Brazilians would have played higher stakes, instead of playing 25NL and under for a living, if it was that easy to earn money higher up?

I used to play 100-400NL online 10 years ago. I would NEVER do it today since your edge is so small that is very hard to win significant money.

If you even find say 4 tables that run without just good regs on those limits today, I still recommend that you play lower stakes or MTTs - unless you are absolute World Class or have a lot of money and want the action to get a thrill.

 

[fundiver199]

If you think it gets easier the higher you get obviously move up.

You are wrong but you seem so stubborn that you have to learn it yourself.

Games over 100NL are very few online today. Why do you think that is?

Don't you think a lot of relatively poor Russians and Brazilians would have played higher stakes, instead of playing 25NL and under for a living, if it was that easy to earn money higher up?

I used to play 100-400NL online 10 years ago. I would NEVER do it today since your edge is so small that is very hard to win significant money.

If you even find say 4 tables that run without just good regs on those limits today, I still recommend that you play lower stakes or MTTs - unless you are absolute World Class or have a lot of money and want the action to get a thrill.

I think, online cash games are dying a slow shark and software filled death starting from above and spreading down through the stakes. As you say, when action at the high limits die out, professional or semiprofessional players are forced to move down, and then these limits become tougher as well, until even a game like 5NL Zoom on Stars become pretty tough.

So if your goal is to make serious money from poker, you probably need to go the tournament way and / or play live poker. Doug Polk actually mentioned this in one of his recent Youtube videos.

You can also just look in the poker lobby of any site to see, how things are going. At its peak the 8.30 PM CET 5,5$ "big fish" on 888 Poker has at least 50 full ring tables running, while you are lucky, if you find 5 tables running at 20NL cash, and most of these will be 6-max.

 

[Desiatpoker]

If you think it gets easier the higher you get obviously move up.

You are wrong but you seem so stubborn that you have to learn it yourself.

Games over 100NL are very few online today. Why do you think that is?

Don't you think a lot of relatively poor Russians and Brazilians would have played higher stakes, instead of playing 25NL and under for a living, if it was that easy to earn money higher up?

I used to play 100-400NL online 10 years ago. I would NEVER do it today since your edge is so small that is very hard to win significant money.

If you even find say 4 tables that run without just good regs on those limits today, I still recommend that you play lower stakes or MTTs - unless you are absolute World Class or have a lot of money and want the action to get a thrill.

You still didn't get what I was asking but anyways, I start playing 1-2 since 2011 lol but for few reasons I left poker for long time now il make my way back. And new to online world so what I was saying again I find it more money in higher stakes then. 5 or. 10 or. 25, and yes it's very hard I never said its easy but what I said was if I make a monster hand I rather be at 1-2 instead of. 25 or under. And 2. I was asking anyone who feel the same like demotivated at lower level just because it's so hard to make few dollor when playing in cents.

 

[pentazepam]

You still didn't get what I was asking but anyways, I start playing 1-2 since 2011 lol but for few reasons I left poker for long time now il make my way back. And new to online world so what I was saying again I find it more money in higher stakes then. 5 or. 10 or. 25, and yes it's very hard I never said its easy but what I said was if I make a monster hand I rather be at 1-2 instead of. 25 or under. And 2. I was asking anyone who feel the same like demotivated at lower level just because it's so hard to make few dollor when playing in cents.

Yes. I also rather have aces at 10000NL than 2NL but we can't choose our hands and when we get them.

And yes it is boring to play for cents on lower levels against Russians, Brazilians and other players from other countries where you can live on a dollar a day.

That is why am almost retired from online poker totally and definitely from serious play for significant money.

Look at the first site of this forum. Some people on 2+2 have video of some cheaters that play in a group and with assistance from computer programs on a another computer (not the one they are playing on) that give them advice. This was HUSNG (hyper and turbo) that is almost solved. But there was bots at 100-400NL almost ten years ago so think about how advanced they are now.

I stand by the fact that if you want to be professional it is almost only LIVE cash and tournaments and maybe still MTTs online with a lot of recreational players (but the variance is high of course) you can choose between.

But test cash online above 100NL and report back after a few months. Maybe you are a poker savant and can crush the assisted players (and bots).

 

[fundiver199]

I stand by the fact that if you want to be professional it is almost only LIVE cash and tournaments and maybe still MTTs online with a lot of recreational players (but the variance is high of course) you can choose between.

I fully agree. I have been playing part time for 18 month and have ended up playing limits like 10-20NL cash and 2-8$ tournaments. And 4-tabling these limits my hourly winrate is something like 2$. So its obviously not a very attractive way to make money, if you are from a western country, but it might be for people from Russia, brasil etc.

I could move up of course, and maybe I eventually will, but games do get noticeably tougher already at 25NL cash and at 11-12$ tournaments, while the rake remain unchanged. So its certainly not a walk in the park, and the time to earn big money in online poker might be largely over.

Maybe online tournaments have the most potential still, but as I said, I see significantly less recreational players already, when I now and then play an 11 or 12$ tournament. And if you are only playing against russian and brasilian regs, you are probably lucky to even beat the rake.

 

[pentazepam]

I fully agree. I have been playing part time for 18 month and have ended up playing limits like 10-20NL cash and 2-8$ tournaments. And 4-tabling these limits my hourly winrate is something like 2$. So its obviously not a very attractive way to make money, if you are from a western country, but it might be for people from Russia, Brasil etc.

I could move up of course, and maybe I eventually will, but games do get noticeably tougher already at 25NL cash and at 11-12$ tournaments, while the rake remain unchanged. So its certainly not a walk in the park, and the time to earn big money in online poker might be largely over.

Maybe online tournaments have the most potential still, but as I said, I see significantly less recreational players already, when I now and then play an 11 or 12$ tournament. And if you are only playing against russian and brasilian regs, you are probably lucky to even beat the rake.

Yes, you seem like a smart person with a good basic understanding of poker.

If it is hard for you on levels that was lower than beginner stakes when I started to play online, just imagine how hard it is for new players - and to get them to deposit (and re-deposit) to keep the echo-system going.

If we are honest: poker is a game where you make most of the money when people make mistakes - not by playing almost perfect yourself. And 10 years ago players made enormous mistakes for all their stack several times.

I think a rotation of mixed games would make it harder for multi-tablers and bots. But most people are only interested in holdem. And under 20bb especially HU that game is practically solved.

And the sites won't change the games if people don't want to play. Mixed games are only available on Stars and they have like two tables cash and some MTTs.

PS and OffTopic:

Are you allowed to get bonuses and re-load bonuses on all (or most) sports betting sites in Denmark? You should try matched betting if you don't already do it. In sweden they banned all re-load bonuses to "protect" people with gambling problems. Another genius plan from the most human and PC country in the world. I miss out on several hundred dollars with minimum time investment every month.