This is a discussion on Zoom nl 2 tough spot within the online poker forums, in the Cash Game Hand Analysis section; PokerStars Zoom, Hold'em No Limit - $0.01/$0.02 - 6 players
Replay this hand on Upswing Poker
putzkedudu (UTG): $2.56 (128 bb)
nowiqq (MP): $2.00 (100 bb)
Ups I Do
Pre-Flop: ($0.03) Hero (Ups I Do It) is CO with A♦ K♣ 2 players fold, Ups I Do It (CO) raises to $0.05, WaiT4U (BU) 3-bets to $0.18, 2 players fold, Ups I Do It (CO) calls $0.13
Flop: ($0.39) Q♣ A♣ 9♣ (2 players) Ups I Do It (CO) checks, WaiT4U (BU) bets $0.13, Ups I Do It (CO) raises to $0.42, WaiT4U (BU) calls $0.29
Turn: ($1.23) 8♠ (2 players) Ups I Do It (CO) bets $0.64, WaiT4U (BU) calls $0.64
River: ($2.51) 2♠ (2 players) Ups I Do It (CO) bets $0.86 (all-in), WaiT4U (BU) calls $0.78 (all-in)
Total pot: $4.07 (Rake: $0.14)
Ups I Do It (CO) shows A♦ K♣ (a pair of Aces) (http://www.propokertools.com/simulations/unrolled?g=he&s=generic&b=QcAc9c8s2s&h1=QdQs&h2=AdKc - Pre-Flop: 43%, Flop: 31%, Turn: 18%, River: 0%)
WaiT4U (BU) shows Q♦ Q♠ (three of a kind, Queens) (http://www.propokertools.com/simulations/unrolled?g=he&s=generic&b=QcAc9c8s2s&h1=QdQs&h2=AdKc - Pre-Flop: 57%, Flop: 69%, Turn: 82%, River: 100%)
Preflop I would 4-bet AK CO vs. BTN, since this is a situation, where his 3-bet range should be very wide. The intention then is to get it in, if he 5-bet. As played I somewhat prefer to just check-call down. When you check-raise and barrel, you create an awkward river spot with only a third pot bet left, and how many worse hands are you realistically getting action from? AQ beat you, and I can easily see a good player get away from AJ or worse on the turn or even the flop, especially if he does not have a club.
yeah tough spot, I think the villain (WaiT4U) would never give up of his QQ even after 4bet preflop, be able to make flush in the flop is very hard, even more at 6max, so he only is afraid of AA in this situation, and he wants a showdown at any cost
4 bet pre is better if BTN range is wide. I don't like check raise on this flop as you are unlikely to get more values from hands you beat (maybe just free rolling AK) but villian could have a lot of weak equitybluff e.g 65ss that may decide to barrel turn but folded to your flop check raise.
So, in this spot Hero BTN decides to utilizes a 2.5x Opening Raise, but in my opinion a 3x raise would fit even better because the players ahead (BTN, SB and BB) have more than 100 BB, and raising 3x you make the odds of your entire Range better and the odds for calling, specially from the Blinds are worst.
At 2 NLHE and 5 NLHE players do not care if you raised 2x, 2.5x or 3x, they are going to make standard 3bets. (3x over 3x raise = 9 BB 3bet sizing which was this Villain did)
B) Who is the player in the BTN? How many hands have you played with it? Because sometimes standard plays will not work. For example if we assume a 3bet range from the BTN with some unknown player:
99+, ATs+, A5s-A2s, KJs+, QJs, ATo+, KQo (10% range 3bet)
C) I also have to agree with the general population that in a spot like this you should be 4betting the top of your range almost 100% of times (Your 4bet range will looks like this: KK+, AJs+, A5s-A2s, AKo, 4% between values and semi-bluffs)
Now a important point at these limits: most of bad regs would be 5betting this QQ, JJ, TT in position which I believe is a bad play in the long run, but at 2 NL and 5 NL things don't use to make too much logic. Although it would be very hard to fold to a 4bet in position with QQ, JJ and TT.
But when Hero in the CO 4bets he has the initiative of the hand which was lost in the moment he decides to call.
In general calls out of position are bad business.
D) The Flop comes strange, rude, boring: QcAc9c which could complete several parts of Villain's Range which 3bets you from the BTN. AQo, AQs, A9s, AA (not so much), 99, QQ, KK, KQs, KJs, KTs QJs, JTs, etc.
E) Hero CO checks to the aggressor who sends a 1/3 bet and get check-raised for the Hero in the CO. One question, is this a Check-Raise for Bluff or a Check-Raise for Value? Hero CO expects Villain in the BTN to fold more (Bluff) or Hero Co expects Villain in the BTN to pay more (Value)?
I also don't know if I like this Check-Raise OOP because it is very easy to the Villain to get out with all of his Bluffs and Weaker Holdings and even more easier for the Villain BTN to pay the Check-Raise with a hand that would be beating Top Pair and Flush Draw from CO.
F) Because there is a 3bet in this pot, a Check-Raise would be forcing no matter what both players to go all-in, either in the Turn or in the River.
In the Turn Hero CO has 75 Blinds and the Pot has already 61.5 Blinds and the Villain BTN has 71 Blinds resting.
I also believe the bet in the Turn was a little bit odd: Would you fold your 43 BB Stack Size in the River by any circumstance? (to invest 43 Blinds for a pot of over 204 BB including Villain BTN stack) I guess not, so I believe if you were with the intention to pressure your opponent you should go all in in the Turn which would put a lot of pressure in BTN's Range.
G) The other line is to go Check-Fold Turn/River because it is a 3bet Pot where Hero already tried to semi-bluff Flop and it didn't come through. This is a very clear indication that Villain BTN it is very strong, specially because the Flop is very connected and both CO and BTN could have straights, flushed and 3 of a kinds in a spot like that.
I also like the line of calling my entire range here, because Hero CO decided to call a 3bet preflop, so I control the Pot for hard times like this when I unfortunately got a cooler.
Definitely like 4 bet pre flop than call, but I don't think calling was an error. There are aguments for passively drawing past flop since you do have a hand and redraws, but your check raise is the line I usually take. It's high variance, but if well balanced gets you paid more.
If you don't know who the sucker is ... ... ...