This worked out great but...

F

Freakakanus

Legend
My Question here is whether or not I actually had the odds to call.
I have been trying to take the adage that min. raises are for pussies and like I was recently told, that min raises give me the odds to call with any 2 cards.
So being that I was in the SB, and there was over 200 already in the pot before it got to me and it only cost 70 to call that I had the odds to call.
I am terribly poor in math so all my reasonings are just guestimations.
(i.e.) 70+70=140 (230 already in the pot, I think that's right.....see how bad my math is?) only 70 to call so I'm at least over 3/1 right? 70x3=210=3/1?
Anyhow, that's the reasoning I had to call with 4/5 offsuit early on here and you can see the rest. I was hoping someone would tell me that I was correct or at least close to correct in my thinking. I feel as though I have at least a vauge glimpse into the next level of play and I really want to reach it. It's o.k. if I'm not spot on but if I'm going in the right direction it would be nice to know.
Besides the fact that connector cards work out o.k. in multi-way pots (which I have also heard here)
This is the worst aspect of my game (odds) by far and many people have tried to help me with this but I seriously need a 6th grade version that a retard could remember to try and figure this out.........:withstupi
P.s- sorry so long

pokerstars Game #5636403681: Tournament #28515958, $6.00+$0.50 Hold'em No Limit - Level I (10/20) - 2006/07/21 - 21:51:06 (ET)
Table '28515958 1' 9-max Seat #4 is the button
Seat 1: elltobreeb (1530 in chips)
Seat 2: stb1 (1420 in chips)
Seat 3: gotcha1092 (1470 in chips)
Seat 4: Onaga (1620 in chips)
Seat 5: Freakakanus (1480 in chips)
Seat 6: Desdia72 (1500 in chips)
Seat 7: frischs77 (1480 in chips)
Seat 8: Wing Flyer (1500 in chips)
Seat 9: MCOL (1500 in chips)
Freakakanus: posts small blind 10
Desdia72: posts big blind 20
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Freakakanus [4s 5d]
frischs77: raises 20 to 40
Wing Flyer: raises 40 to 80
MCOL: calls 80
elltobreeb: folds
stb1: folds
gotcha1092: folds
Onaga: folds
Freakakanus: calls 70
Desdia72: folds
frischs77: calls 40
*** FLOP *** [6h 3d 7h]
Freakakanus: bets 100
frischs77: raises 200 to 300
Wing Flyer: folds
MCOL: folds
Freakakanus: raises 200 to 500
frischs77: raises 900 to 1400 and is all-in
Freakakanus: calls 900 and is all-in
*** TURN *** [6h 3d 7h] 9♠
*** RIVER *** [6h 3d 7h 9s] [Ad]*** SHOW DOWN ***
Freakakanus: shows [4s 5d] (a straight, Three to Seven)
frischs77: shows [Qd Qc] (a pair of Queens)
Freakakanus collected 3140 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 3140 | Rake 0
Board [6h 3d 7h 9s Ad]
Seat 1: elltobreeb folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 2: stb1 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 3: gotcha1092 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 4: Onaga (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: Freakakanus (small blind) showed [4s 5d] and won (3140) with a straight, Three to Seven
Seat 6: Desdia72 (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 7: frischs77 showed [Qd Qc] and lost with a pair of Queens
Seat 8: Wing Flyer folded on the Flop
Seat 9: MCOL folded on the Flop



P.P.S.
I know I caught the miracle flop and it's kinda besides the point. (because that was essentially what I was hoping for)
I want to know if my math is right.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
joosebuck

joosebuck

Legend
your only worry is that frischs77 will try to squeeze you out by pushing if you try to limp in between him and the other player. you could easily stack them with the right flop, so the implied odds make it worthwhile
 
Stick66

Stick66

Legend
Yes, you are correct about the pot odds part. Your guess was also correct that your 45off was also about 3-1 against random hands (34.66% to be exact).

But sorry. The obvious can't be avoided: Those 2 raises plus a caller ahead of you should have shut you down immediately. What if the first raiser went all-in after you called?

frischs77: raises 20 to 40
Wing Flyer: raises 40 to 80
MCOL: calls 80

A lot going on there. Math is math, but your senses should have told you to ditch the junk. The math shouldn't be the sole basis of your decision. This is especially true in a tournament since you can't reload like a cash game.

You got terribly lucky here, homie.
 
Alon Ipser

Alon Ipser

Cardschat Elite
Unless you catch the miracle flop you are going to fold to any bet. Even if you catch a 4 or a 5 instead of what you got, you are still low pair low kicker. Seems like a waste of 70 chips to me.
 
Stick66

Stick66

Legend
Anyone else have a perspective here? Freak's a good guy and could use more help.
 
ChuckTs

ChuckTs

Legend
Odds-wise, I like to limp with suited connectors/connectors/small pairs when I've got a few limpers before me, so roughly when I'm getting 3-1 on my money I suppose. (I'm a tard with odds too, Freak - you're not alone! :p). If you hit a good flop here, your implied odds will make up for any pot odds you were lacking PF.
The problem here is that it's not a limped pot. You have a minraiser, a minreraiser, and a cold caller. You have to watch out that you aren't wasting your 70 chips if the original raiser decides to reraise. Try to make it a habit of limping into pots with those small hands when it's a multiway limped pot. That's the key because you're always getting great odds in those situations.

I agree with your reasoning for trying to see a flop here, though. The perfect result for suited connectors is when your opponent has an overpair (which gives implied odds=money for you), and you hit 2 pair/straight/flush/trips. This was the textbook example of how big pairs give implied odds (though he could have got a much better result had he reraised big PF).

Well done Freak :)
 
F

Freakakanus

Legend
I understand the reasoning behind folding with the raise and reraise and call in front of me. (They both must have big hands to be raising..etc....)
I guess I was thinking that the point of using the odds was as a reasoning behind what might otherwise be a questionable (stupid?) call. I thought these were the situations you were looking to get involved in when the payback could be substantial but the risk minimal. I would have folded if reraised with no problem. I guess so early in the game I didn't consider 70 chips to be a significant loss. Plus everyone had just been limping in every pot previously so I didn't think a reraise was coming. Thanks for helping guys!
 
S

Styrofoam

Visionary
A call on a 1 raise here is okay... a cold call of two raises with an over-call already... you have to have a premium hand to make this call, which you clearly don't. You got a good flop, but you should definately fold here.
 
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