When Razz Fish collide

skoldpadda

skoldpadda

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Full Tilt Poker Game #6473786510: Table Howard Lederer - $2/$4 Ante $0.40 - Limit Razz - 23:03:03 ET - 2008/05/18
Seat 1: garamond10pt ($70.10)
Seat 2: JoeSchmoPro ($42.20)
Seat 3: chinooksal ($102.10)
Seat 5: jaoghod13 ($114.60)
Seat 6: hilobrah ($49)
Seat 7: skoldpadda9 ($121.70)
Seat 8: EddieWac ($39)
garamond10pt antes $0.40
chinooksal antes $0.40
jaoghod13 antes $0.40
EddieWac antes $0.40
skoldpadda9 antes $0.40
JoeSchmoPro antes $0.40
5 seconds left to act
hilobrah antes $0.40
*** 3RD STREET ***
Dealt to garamond10pt [3d]
Dealt to JoeSchmoPro [3h]
Dealt to chinooksal [6d]
Dealt to jaoghod13 [Qc]
Dealt to hilobrah [Ah]
Dealt to skoldpadda9 [2c Ac] [Jh]
Dealt to EddieWac [Ad]
jaoghod13 is high with [Qc]
jaoghod13 brings in for $0.50
hilobrah calls $0.50
skoldpadda9 folds
EddieWac calls $0.50
garamond10pt folds
JoeSchmoPro folds
chinooksal calls $0.50
*** 4TH STREET ***
Dealt to chinooksal [6d] [2d]
Dealt to jaoghod13 [Qc] [4c]
Dealt to hilobrah [Ah] [Td]
Dealt to EddieWac [Ad] [8s]
chinooksal bets $2
jaoghod13 folds
hilobrah calls $2
EddieWac calls $2
*** 5TH STREET ***
Dealt to chinooksal [6d 2d] [Kc]
Dealt to hilobrah [Ah Td] [Qs]
Dealt to EddieWac [Ad 8s] [Qd]
EddieWac bets $4
chinooksal calls $4
hilobrah folds
*** 6TH STREET ***
Dealt to chinooksal [6d 2d Kc] [5h]
Dealt to EddieWac [Ad 8s Qd] [Tc]
EddieWac has 15 seconds left to act
EddieWac bets $4 <---- bet for metagame imo
chinooksal raises to $8
EddieWac calls $4
*** 7TH STREET ***
EddieWac checks
chinooksal bets $4
EddieWac has 15 seconds left to act
EddieWac calls $4 <--- rough 10 almost never good here imo
*** SHOW DOWN ***
chinooksal shows [Ks 7h 6d 2d Kc 5h 4d] 7,6,5,4,2
EddieWac mucks
chinooksal wins the pot ($40.80) with 7,6,5,4,2
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $42.80 | Rake $2
Seat 1: garamond10pt folded on 3rd St.
Seat 2: JoeSchmoPro folded on 3rd St.
Seat 3: chinooksal showed [Ks 7h 6d 2d Kc 5h 4d] and won ($40.80) with 7,6,5,4,2
Seat 5: jaoghod13 folded on 4th St.
Seat 6: hilobrah folded on 5th St.
Seat 7: skoldpadda9 folded on 3rd St.
Seat 8: EddieWac mucked [Th 9c Ad 8s Qd Tc 6c] - T,9,8,6,A


I hate Razz, but there are just so many horrible players... and I need to build my BR faster.
 
Dwilius

Dwilius

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Yeah I know I could build BR with razz but pokerstars starts at .50/1 out of my range. Its one game fulltilt has a lower level than PS but haven't bought in there.
 
OzExorcist

OzExorcist

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LOLOLZ :D

I've made a couple of brief forays in the .25/.50 ring games. It seemed that there's a lot of regulars grinding away against each other at the very bottom - and occasionally a completely hopeless fish will show up, drop a couple of buyins and then run away back to the NLHE tables.

Therein lies one of the utterly frustrating aspects of razz, I guess: being completely card-dead for the 10-20 hands that the fish is there for.

Plan on giving it a more serious go when I get the bankroll up a little more.

Do you find they stick around more at the higher levels?
 
vanquish

vanquish

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man reading that HH is like reading arabic when you cant read arabic
 
skoldpadda

skoldpadda

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man reading that HH is like reading arabic when you cant read arabic


well then, have some more

full tilt poker Game #6475256132: Table Howard Lederer - $2/$4 Ante $0.40 - Limit Razz - 1:06:54 ET - 2008/05/19
Seat 1: lvplayer ($8.05)
Seat 2: joan baez ($64.20)
Seat 3: bennett3580 ($66.30)
Seat 5: dpm821 ($29.50)
Seat 6: SAIRAMBOY ($43.20)
Seat 7: skoldpadda9 ($152.60)
Seat 8: JoeSchmoPro ($22.30)
dpm821 antes $0.40
lvplayer antes $0.40
bennett3580 antes $0.40
SAIRAMBOY antes $0.40
skoldpadda9 antes $0.40
joan baez antes $0.40
JoeSchmoPro antes $0.40
*** 3RD STREET ***
Dealt to lvplayer 9♠
Dealt to joan baez K♥
Dealt to bennett3580 [Ts]
Dealt to dpm821 6♦
Dealt to SAIRAMBOY A♠
Dealt to skoldpadda9 [3d 2s] 7♦
Dealt to JoeSchmoPro 4♣
joan baez is high with K♥
joan baez brings in for $0.50
bennett3580 folds
dpm821 calls $0.50
SAIRAMBOY has 15 seconds left to act
SAIRAMBOY calls $0.50
skoldpadda9 calls $0.50
JoeSchmoPro folds
lvplayer folds
*** 4TH STREET ***
Dealt to joan baez K♥ 2♣
Dealt to dpm821 6♦ 6♣
Dealt to SAIRAMBOY A♠ K♦
Dealt to skoldpadda9 [3d 2s 7d] A♣
skoldpadda9 bets $2
joan baez calls $2
dpm821 calls $2
SAIRAMBOY has 15 seconds left to act
SAIRAMBOY folds
*** 5TH STREET ***
Dealt to joan baez [Kh 2c] 3♣
Dealt to dpm821 [6d 6c] 9♥
Dealt to skoldpadda9 [3d 2s 7d Ac] 5♦
skoldpadda9 bets $4
joan baez calls $4
dpm821 folds
*** 6TH STREET ***
Dealt to joan baez [Kh 2c 3c] Q♠
Dealt to skoldpadda9 [3d 2s 7d Ac 5d] J♥
skoldpadda9 bets $4
joan baez calls $4 <-- If 5th street was marginal, this is just HORRIBLE
*** 7TH STREET ***
Dealt to skoldpadda9 [3d 2s 7d Ac 5d Jh] 8♥
skoldpadda9 checks
joan baez checks
*** SHOW DOWN ***
skoldpadda9 shows [8h 3d 7d Ac 5d Jh 2s] 7,5,3,2,A
joan baez mucks
skoldpadda9 wins the pot ($25.80) with 7,5,3,2,A
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $26.80 | Rake $1
Seat 1: lvplayer folded on 3rd St.
Seat 2: joan baez mucked [9d 8c Kh 2c 3c Qs 6h] - 9,8,6,3,2 <-- was drawing dead going to 7th street
Seat 3: bennett3580 folded on 3rd St.
Seat 5: dpm821 folded on 5th St.
Seat 6: SAIRAMBOY folded on 4th St.
Seat 7: skoldpadda9 showed [8h 3d 7d Ac 5d Jh 2s] and won ($25.80) with 7,5,3,2,A
Seat 8: JoeSchmoPro folded on 3rd St.
 
skoldpadda

skoldpadda

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Yeah I know I could build BR with razz but pokerstars starts at .50/1 out of my range. Its one game fulltilt has a lower level than PS but haven't bought in there.

The play on Stars is equally horrible. After I got knocked out of the HU Razz tourney the other day, I played the 50c/$1 cash game while railing and won over $50 in under 2 hours.

I don't like the game because it's so mechanical. There are some bluffs and spots when you have enough equity to call when behind, but there's not much thought really needed to play well. Surprisingly though, it's apparently enough thought such that it is too much for many, many players.
 
J

jedimoose

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Good RAZZ players make alot of loot. This is because the game is so mechanical as stated above. Most people (myself included) get bored of the game because of this reason. RAZZ ring players are usually grinders, and the fish will come just tag em and wait for them. I see more bad players in this game at the HORSE tables then any other game. I just dont have the desire to play the game for 2-3 hours in a MTT typically.
 
B

bobbydig

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Interesting hands, I usually bet the made 7 on 7th street because I feel as though your good almost everytime here figuring as he showed no real strength in any street
 
skoldpadda

skoldpadda

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Interesting hands, I usually bet the made 7 on 7th street because I feel as though your good almost everytime here figuring as he showed no real strength in any street


I'd rather induce a bluff from a worse hand than possibly get raised by an improved/better hand. This is a very important concept. The chaser will often bluff when he misses and is checked to, but fold when he misses and is bet into. I think he rarely calls in this situation. If he improves, I pay off only 1 bet and not 2. With the 23 showing, I have to give him credit for a draw to a 5,6, or 7 in the hole which gives him a lot of winning outs for that range. I like the check better.
 
OzExorcist

OzExorcist

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Side issue:

Skold, how do you think the ante structure affects this game? Looks like the bring-in is pretty low relative to the ante, does it encourage a more loose style of play?

Just thinking it could be encouraging some of the somewhat loose peeling on fourth street in these hands...

Can't actually remember the structure at Full Tilt off the top of my head, but I think it's a 5c ante and 15c bring-in at 25-50c limits?
 
Dwilius

Dwilius

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Drawing dead to sixth even. Maybe I'll forget BRM and just take my whole roll to razz 2/4
 
skoldpadda

skoldpadda

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Drawing dead to sixth even. Maybe I'll forget BRM and just take my whole roll to razz 2/4

LOL, I wouldn't recommend that, but try 50/$1. You will still get your bad beats and hands where you brick 5th, 6th, and 7th. Last night I lost 25 big bets before I turned it around and ended up 10 big bets for the night. This is one of the more painful things about razz, bricking 2 or 3 streets in a row with a huge draw as a big favorite on 4th vs a chaser.
 
skoldpadda

skoldpadda

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Here's another good example of checking to induce a bluff from a hand that you'd otherwise get no $$ from:

Full Tilt poker game #6498472900: Table jusmoney - $2/$4 Ante $0.40 - Limit Razz - 20:17:02 ET - 2008/05/20
Seat 2: EddieWac ($26.70)
Seat 3: skoldpadda9 ($116.30)
Seat 4: pptkeywest ($30.30)
Seat 5: tetrodotoxin ($58.60)
Seat 6: LuckyMutha777 ($38.70)
Seat 7: aaarelic ($68.60)
Seat 8: PARASOFT ($119.20)
tetrodotoxin antes $0.40
EddieWac antes $0.40
aaarelic antes $0.40
PARASOFT antes $0.40
LuckyMutha777 antes $0.40
pptkeywest antes $0.40
skoldpadda9 antes $0.40
*** 3RD STREET ***
Dealt to EddieWac 7♦
Dealt to skoldpadda9 [6c 2h] A♦
Dealt to pptkeywest 5♥
Dealt to tetrodotoxin 6♥
Dealt to LuckyMutha777 Q♠
Dealt to aaarelic 4♠
Dealt to PARASOFT 5♣
LuckyMutha777 is high with Q♠
LuckyMutha777 brings in for $0.50
aaarelic folds
PARASOFT completes it to $2
EddieWac has 15 seconds left to act
EddieWac folds
skoldpadda9 raises to $4
pptkeywest folds
tetrodotoxin raises to $6
LuckyMutha777 folds
PARASOFT calls $4
skoldpadda9 raises to $8
tetrodotoxin calls $2
PARASOFT calls $2
*** 4TH STREET ***
Dealt to skoldpadda9 [6c 2h Ad] 7♠
Dealt to tetrodotoxin 6♥ 9♣
Dealt to PARASOFT 5♣ K♠
skoldpadda9 bets $2
tetrodotoxin calls $2
PARASOFT folds
*** 5TH STREET ***
Dealt to skoldpadda9 [6c 2h Ad 7s] 8♠
Dealt to tetrodotoxin [6h 9c] 3♥
skoldpadda9 bets $4
tetrodotoxin calls $4
*** 6TH STREET ***
Dealt to skoldpadda9 [6c 2h Ad 7s 8s] Q♦
Dealt to tetrodotoxin [6h 9c 3h] K♥
skoldpadda9 bets $4
tetrodotoxin calls $4
*** 7TH STREET ***
Dealt to skoldpadda9 [6c 2h Ad 7s 8s Qd] J♥
skoldpadda9 checks
tetrodotoxin bets $4
skoldpadda9 calls $4
*** SHOW DOWN ***
tetrodotoxin shows [6s 5s 6h 9c 3h Kh 2d] 9,6,5,3,2
skoldpadda9 shows [Jh 6c Ad 7s 8s Qd 2h] 8,7,6,2,A
skoldpadda9 wins the pot ($53.30) with 8,7,6,2,A
tetrodotoxin adds $3.80
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $55.30 | Rake $2
Seat 2: EddieWac folded on 3rd St.
Seat 3: skoldpadda9 showed [Jh 6c Ad 7s 8s Qd 2h] and won ($53.30) with 8,7,6,2,A
Seat 4: pptkeywest folded on 3rd St.
Seat 5: tetrodotoxin showed [6s 5s 6h 9c 3h Kh 2d] and lost with 9,6,5,3,2
Seat 6: LuckyMutha777 folded on 3rd St.
Seat 7: aaarelic folded on 3rd St.
Seat 8: PARASOFT folded on 4th St.
 
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