What do you do OOP with middle pair?

NineLions

NineLions

Advanced beginner
Joined
Sep 20, 2006
Total posts
4,979
Chance to test run the new converter :)

I think I've been playing this badly lately. What do you generally look to do when you flop middle pair and you're OOP, for me usually in the BB as in this example? It's a limped pot, I've got a good kicker but we're four handed and I'm OOP.

Lead out? Probe bet? Check-call?



Stacks:
- BTN with $11.10 - SB with $9.90 - BB with $11.20 - UTG with $10.00 - UTG+1 with $8.35 - UTG+2 with $2.20 - UTG+3 with $7.60

index.pl


index.pl

Site: pokerstars
Holecards:
* - SB (Hero) is dealt
7d.gif
kd.gif

(Sklansky group 7)
Preflop:
* - UTG+3 calls [$0.10]
* - BTN calls [$0.10]
* - SB calls [$0.05]
* - BB: checks
* - Folds: 3
* - Potsize: $0.4
Flop:
5s.gif
js.gif
7h.gif


Hand Converter By Cardschat.com Poker Forum
 
NineLions

NineLions

Advanced beginner
Joined
Sep 20, 2006
Total posts
4,979
Hmm, I tried to post in ring games, but somehow ended up in tournaments? I don't know if that was my error or something got changed during the posting process.

Can a mod move this to ring games?

[edit: done.]
 
Last edited by a moderator:
ChuckTs

ChuckTs

Legend
Joined
Feb 2, 2005
Total posts
13,642
How are your opponents playing?

I might lead off with a ~1/2 pot bet to see where I'm at, and shut down if I get called or raised, or I might even just check-fold with the jack being pretty likely to have hit someone, and the FD further complicating things.
 
Emperor IX

Emperor IX

Cardschat Elite
Joined
May 28, 2007
Total posts
2,974
I lead out with about 35 cents here as usual, and as Chuck said, shutdown when called.

10max is all about the big pots, don't try to take down a bunch of smaller ones if you're not fairly sure you're ahead.
 
tenbob

tenbob

Legend
Joined
May 16, 2005
Total posts
11,221
Awards
1
10max is all about the big pots, don't try to take down a bunch of smaller ones if you're not fairly sure you're ahead.


This is bang on. Bet-fold. Stab at the flop, dont over commit, if your called and fail to improve, I check the flop, call down extremly light if your let, value bet to death if your hand improves.

Mostly it works like this, bet/fold. Bet, check/fold the turn.
 
NineLions

NineLions

Advanced beginner
Joined
Sep 20, 2006
Total posts
4,979
How are your opponents playing?

I might lead off with a ~1/2 pot bet to see where I'm at, and shut down if I get called or raised, or I might even just check-fold with the jack being pretty likely to have hit someone, and the FD further complicating things.

This particular one is an old hand; I don't have current hand history on this computer so I'm not sure about the opponents. It's one of those things that stick in the back of your mind over time and gets remembered when you face the situation again, but then never get around to investigating it.


I've been check-folding in this situation in general unless it gets minbet, but I suspect this is where I used to be winning from the SB/BB, by taking little stabs at little pots OOP when I caught parts of the flop. Here it's complicated a bit by so many in the flop and the flush draw, but if you win more than 1 time out of 2 with 1/2 pot bet, AND, shut down if raised/called, it should be +EV.


Sorry, I seem to be talking myself into answering my own question, so why didn't I figure that out for myself. :confused: But it helps to have some outside perspective/opinion.
 
Schatzdog

Schatzdog

Visionary
Joined
Jun 29, 2005
Total posts
693
If you have a tight image you can raise PF and collect the dead money.

Apart from that TB has it covered.
 
NineLions

NineLions

Advanced beginner
Joined
Sep 20, 2006
Total posts
4,979
Yep, thanks guys.

I'm in another one of those phases of rebuilding my game again, I think. I seem to lose some small things that I used to do every now and then. Then I end up a little lost when they come up.
 
Bombjack

Bombjack

Legend
Joined
Jul 6, 2006
Total posts
2,389
This is a pretty standard check-fold for me. I'm not calling unless someone bets really small and gives me odds to call on my 5-outer, or I think it's possible I have the best hand (you won't most of the time if someone bets this flop).

If no-one has a Jack and it's checked round, you give people the chance to draw out on you, but really who cares? It's a 40c pot. Play aggressively in the big pots and tighten up your image by playing tight in the small ones. If the turn is an offsuit 2 or something, I might conclude I have the best hand and take a small stab, but on the flop, betting is spew. Unless they're really bad, no-one's calling your bet with worse. And it'll probably get checked down.

The other advantage to checking is that you might improve your hand with a King or Seven on the turn, while someone else improves to second best. Now you can win some real money.
 
Top