What could I have done?

Deathwish238

Deathwish238

Rock Star
Joined
Feb 10, 2008
Total posts
130
I thought I played this perfectly...I suppose there wasn't much I could have done...

Shorthanded, 1st hand at this table


***** Game number #16533662053 *****
Hold'em No Limit ($0.02/$0.05) - 2008/04/06 - 15:08:07 (ET)
Table 'Houssay II' 6-max
Seat 4 (BTN) has the button.
SB posts small blind [$0.02]
Hero posts big blind [$0.05]
Seat 1 : UTG with $2.75.
Seat 3 : d100d with $4.12.
Seat 4 : BTN with $4.93.
Seat 5 : SB with $9.01.
Seat 6 : Hero with $2.50.
hand.pl

** Dealing hole cards **
Dealt to Hero :
:jh4: :qc4:
Sklansky group: 5
UTG: folds
d100d calls [$0.05]
BTN: folds
SB calls [$0.03]
Hero raises $0.15 to $0.20
d100d calls [$0.15]
SB calls [$0.15]
** Dealing Flop ** [Potsize: $0.6]
:4c4: :6d4: :qh4:
SB: checks
Hero bets [$0.30]
d100d: folds
SB calls [$0.30]
** Dealing Turn ** [Potsize: $1.2]
:js4:
SB: checks
Hero bets [$0.55]
SB calls [$0.55]
** Dealing River ** [Potsize: $2.3]
:kc4:
SB: checks
Hero bets [$1.45] [ all-in ]
SB calls [$1.45]
** Showdown **
Hero shows two pair, Queens and Jacks:
:jh4: :qc4:
SB shows three of a kind, Fours:
:4d4: :4h4:
SB collected $4.95 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $5.20 | Rake $0.25
Board [4c 6d Qh Js Kc]
Seat 3: d100d folded on the Flop
Seat 5: SB (small blind) showed [4d 4h] and won ($4.95) with three of a kind, Fours
Seat 6: Hero (big blind) showed [Jh Qc] and lost with two pair, Queens and Jacks
 
c9h13no3

c9h13no3

Is drawing with AK
Joined
Jan 2, 2007
Total posts
8,819
Your stack isn't deep enough to get away from this hand, especially when the jack hits. However, you really should have wondered "What the hell does he call the flop with that I can beat??"

Just in case you're not sure, here's what you can beat: 35, 57, QT or less, pairs lower than 99 that don't have sets, and suited connector hands that hit a 6 like 56 or 67. A set, 46, or KQ should really be on your radar after that suspicious flop call.

So if the Jack doesn't hit on the turn, and a blank hits instead, I think checking is the best line. But with the Jack on the turn putting you ahead of any other two pair, or KQ then betting is certainly the best course of action, and it pretty much seals your fate to go broke. Maybe if you had a full 5 dollars, we could get away from this on the river, but its still doubtful. Just one of those things in poker.
 
royalburrito24

royalburrito24

Legend
Joined
Aug 27, 2007
Total posts
2,417
I am not familiar with 6-max at all, but why are we raising with QJ from the BB?
Here is my line.
Check pre-flop.
Bet 3/4 pot on flop, fold to any re-raise.
Bet 3/4 pot on turn, shove any re raise.
Shove river.
Obviously there is no way you can get away from this hand, but I think you put yourself in a tough spot raising pre-flop with such a weak hand.
Again, I know nothing about 6-max, so maybe this is a common practice?
 
c9h13no3

c9h13no3

Is drawing with AK
Joined
Jan 2, 2007
Total posts
8,819
I am not familiar with 6-max at all, but why are we raising with QJ from the BB?
Because it makes playing the hand easier from OOP, and this hand is still ahead of the usual limping range so we're raising for value.
 
royalburrito24

royalburrito24

Legend
Joined
Aug 27, 2007
Total posts
2,417
I just feel like we are putting unnecessary money into the pot pre-flop.
If we miss this flop, we may get in trouble trying to c-bet when we clearly do not have the best hand.
 
Deathwish238

Deathwish238

Rock Star
Joined
Feb 10, 2008
Total posts
130
$5NL Shorthanded is quite loose. I only limp with lower suited connectors or bad suited Aces and Kings. Otherwise I'm not gonna bother even calling. I raise preflop to try and minimize the junk hands that hit low flops.

Usually I cbet the flop and often enough 3-4 people will fold and I'll take the pot.
 
brettstix

brettstix

Rock Star
Joined
Mar 17, 2007
Total posts
102
I don't like the raise from OOP. I understand the idea of eliminating some of the weaker hands but there is not a lot the be gained from this raise.
 
Deathwish238

Deathwish238

Rock Star
Joined
Feb 10, 2008
Total posts
130
Well it starts building the pot for one.
 
royalburrito24

royalburrito24

Legend
Joined
Aug 27, 2007
Total posts
2,417
Building the pot with QJos? weaksauce!
 
Deathwish238

Deathwish238

Rock Star
Joined
Feb 10, 2008
Total posts
130
There you go...5NL Shorthanded is ridiculously loose. I was playing at a table earlier where one dude had a 96% VP$IP and the other had a 60 VP$IP.
 
c9h13no3

c9h13no3

Is drawing with AK
Joined
Jan 2, 2007
Total posts
8,819
There you go...5NL Shorthanded is ridiculously loose. I was playing at a table earlier where one dude had a 96% VP$IP and the other had a 60 VP$IP.
And its precisely these players we want to get value out of by raising preflop with QJos. Not to mention that it helps us C-bet & gives us more fold equity in the hand, blah blah blah.

I say nice raise. But then again, I raise every hand I play, so....
 
royalburrito24

royalburrito24

Legend
Joined
Aug 27, 2007
Total posts
2,417
I view the raise as more of a steal attempt than anything else. If we are up against 96% and 60% VP$IP, then this attempt will almost never work.
Better hands are calling the raise, and worse hands are folding out imo.
 
Deathwish238

Deathwish238

Rock Star
Joined
Feb 10, 2008
Total posts
130
The preflop raise is definitely not to steal. It's to chase out pure crap hands(yeah the 96% won't fold but the 60% may) and to get some money in the pot so when I cbet the bet is big enough where they want to fold.
 
rwilson

rwilson

Rock Star
Joined
Jan 15, 2008
Total posts
126
I play pretty much only 6-max and I most likely would have raised QJ here as well.. ideally as a steal but it makes it easier to play post flop OOP.

I think with two limpers before you, you probably don't want to be folding a hand like QJoff, but if you're going to play it you need to represent a stronger hand, so that you give yourself an escape clause if you miss the flop. Plus I'm assuming people will limp with absolute trash at these limits, and you want to have a rough idea of what other hands you might be up against if they call.
 
Jagsti

Jagsti

I'm sweet enough!
Joined
Feb 18, 2007
Total posts
5,478
Punishing limpers in 6 max is pretty standard tbh. I doubt whether I do this with my 1st hand at the table, however, if they continually limp pf into my BB, I'm a raisin' atc!
 
KingCurtis

KingCurtis

Legend
Joined
Sep 24, 2007
Total posts
9,945
Awards
1
dont bet preflop in the BB with Q J off no argument
 
rwilson

rwilson

Rock Star
Joined
Jan 15, 2008
Total posts
126
dont bet preflop in the BB with Q J off no argument
I think there would be an argument here that you are likely to be holding the best hand preflop in this case, regardless of whether it's only Q,Joff.

The player before the button has limped into an unraised pot, suggesting he's likely to have a weak/marginal holding, and making it less likely that he has an ace or king.

The player in the SB is getting 4:1 on their money to call, so they could have absolutely any two cards, again though if they were holding an ace or a king 3-handed you would probably expect to see some sort of raise.

So there's little chance of you being dominated by a hand (like AQ or AJ)considering the betting before you.. and there's every likelihood that your Queen high might be good at this stage.

A decent raise here would be likely to see the late position limper fold, and if the small blind calls then you still have position and you can c-bet to represent any A or K that hits the flop, or bet out any Q or J that comes out.

Why wouldn't you have a stab at trying to take the pot there? Probably not the sort of hand you would want to try to build a pot with, but I reckon there's a good case to raise strong and try to take it down preflop.

Deathwish is just unlucky the SB called with his pocket fours and then flopped a set at 7:1. If he hadn't of hit, a c-bet from Deathwish would have been very hard for the SB to call.
 
Top