TT with A kicker OOP; shorthanded on passive table

What's my move?


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loopmeister

loopmeister

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Very loose, passive table. I'm pretty much the only person raising pf. Ever.

** Game ID 20039554 starting - 2007-03-25 13:12:25
** Moet [Hold 'em] (1.00|2.00 No Limit - Cash Game) real money

- JAL sitting in seat 1 with $174.00 [Dealer]
- Despatch sitting in seat 2 with $115.99
- Nocham sitting in seat 4 with $46.00
- maverick99 sitting in seat 5 with $94.75
- Scorch sitting in seat 7 with $222.62
- loopy sitting in seat 8 with $212.75

Despatch posted the small blind - $1.00
Nocham posted the big blind - $2.00
** Dealing card to loopy: 10 of Diamonds, Ace of Hearts
maverick99 folded
Scorch called - $2.00
loopy raised - $8.00
JAL called - $8.00
Despatch folded
Nocham folded
Scorch folded

** Dealing the flop: 10 of Clubs, 5 of Clubs, 8 of Spades
loopy bet - $21.00
JAL called - $21.00

** Dealing the turn: 3 of Diamonds

Fire again, or check-fold? (I vote check-fold)
 
tosborn

tosborn

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I place a pot sized bet. There are only four hands that beat you right now that could be in his range (AA-JJ). I can't figure out why he wouldn't have re-raised that favorable flop even being passive.
 
stormswa

stormswa

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I place a pot sized bet. There are only four hands that beat you right now that could be in his range (AA-JJ). I can't figure out why he wouldn't have re-raised that favorable flop even being passive.


more then 4

TT,55,88,33,JJ,QQ,KK,AA,T3,T5 etc etc etc.


but I do agree on betting.


the way he has played his hand looks like a overpair or a set though so be prepaired to get re-raised.
 
skoldpadda

skoldpadda

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If he's loose he may have Ac8c. I think 55 and 88 as well as over pairs are the other likely holdings. If he's really fishy, maybe K10 or A10... but those are tough hands to call that flop bet with. I think it's more likely that he has a holding that has you dominated, so I'd check fold. Unless you have a good read on him as being a chasing fish.
 
loopmeister

loopmeister

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Do you think he would call a potsize bet with a flush or straight draw?

If not, I'm behind; and waaayyy behind and should get out of this hand, right?
 
loopmeister

loopmeister

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BTW Skoldpadda - what language is your nick (it means tortoise right)?
 
H

homerphobe

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Table Image

You said it was "very loose" and "passive". That would say to me that a lot of people are calling frequently with inferior hands. I'd say it depends a lot on your table image. If you've been bullying the players a lot I can easily see a weak player calling with second pair or an underpair. I see nothing wrong with a 1/2 to 2/3 pot bet.
 
stormswa

stormswa

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Do you think he would call a potsize bet with a flush or straight draw?

If not, I'm behind; and waaayyy behind and should get out of this hand, right?


pot size would be incorrect to call on a flush draw but when do a silly thing like odds matter to a bad player?

being OOP in this hand sucks, if you were in position you could pot the turn and check the river but being oop sucks here. Im more inclined to just check/fold and say to myself "stop playing mediocre hands OOP"
 
loopmeister

loopmeister

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You said it was "very loose" and "passive". That would say to me that a lot of people are calling frequently with inferior hands. I'd say it depends a lot on your table image. If you've been bullying the players a lot I can easily see a weak player calling with second pair or an underpair. I see nothing wrong with a 1/2 to 2/3 pot bet.

Let me clarify: loose, and very passive.
 
ChuckTs

ChuckTs

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He's got a huge range, most of which we have beat, loopy. It sounds to me like you ran into a set and are being a little results-oriented (correct me if I'm wrong).

This gets a little tough OOP with such a marginal hand, but this is pretty much the exact flop you want w/AT. Can't we just bet like 3/4 the pot here though? We still give him bad odds for a draw and we save a little more for when we're behind. Plus I don't think J9 or a flush draw calls all that often with a pot-sized bet rather than a slightly smaller one.
 
Lafaena

Lafaena

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If its a passive table i would bet weakly around half the pot and hope to get raised by an overpair. If they call i would probably put them on a draw, and can get out easy on the river. He may have an overpair, but at a loose and passive table, who knows maybe hes got one of the million straight/flush combinations on that board. Betting half pot here accomplishes to charge draws and to define your hand by representing a draw yourself. Even a passive player would probably raise with queens or better there, But probably not with a flushdraw/straight draw.
 
loopmeister

loopmeister

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He's got a huge range, most of which we have beat, loopy. It sounds to me like you ran into a set and are being a little results-oriented (correct me if I'm wrong).

Okay ;) -- I did actually re-bet the pot. [Edit: I just double-checked. It was just over 1/2 the pot on the turn. ]
He called again. Then I check folded the river when a blank hit. I just reviewed the hand now on PT (looking at my biggest losing hands when holding a pair) and thought "why did I chuck more money into the pot there when it seems obvious he's holding something that's not afraid of a pot bet on that flop"
 
Last edited:
NineLions

NineLions

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Loose table, meaning he might be calling preflop with KT? Passive, meaning he might not be reraising preflop even with AA?

The other characteristic that might be interesting is showdown percentage; is he likely to call to showdown with anything? If you think you're ahead, you can collect a lot against calling stations.

Otherwise, if he's passive postflop, then you might be able to see the river with small blocking bets even if he does have you beat.
 
stormswa

stormswa

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He's got a huge range, most of which we have beat, loopy. It sounds to me like you ran into a set and are being a little results-oriented (correct me if I'm wrong).

This gets a little tough OOP with such a marginal hand, but this is pretty much the exact flop you want w/AT. Can't we just bet like 3/4 the pot here though? We still give him bad odds for a draw and we save a little more for when we're behind. Plus I don't think J9 or a flush draw calls all that often with a pot-sized bet rather than a slightly smaller one.

Well pots $58 or so , so not big difference but if you wish chuck we will do 3/4. Like you said don't matter much its still incorrect to call.
 
J

james222

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i would check here even though hes very likely to be on a draw but also very likely dominating us. If he is on a draw i doubt he will try to steal will most likely take the free card. hes probably gonna check even if he has a hand like J10 Q10 or K10. But if he bets I would fold with these very passive players ive seen them just call with AA KK or QQ all the way down sets also. against these passive players you might want to try keeping the pots smaller and betting only like 2/3 or 3/4 pot youll lose less when they slow play you and they will probably fold/call with the same ranges of hands. if you pot this turn you have already committed half your stack when he could have KK or AA
 
ChuckTs

ChuckTs

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"why did I chuck more money into the pot there when it seems obvious he's holding something that's not afraid of a pot bet on that flop"

You say this guy is very loose/passive (ie a calling station). He could be making these calls with a huge number of hands; JT+, 99, flush draw, straight draw, 77, A8...
 
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