TPTK with scare card on turn

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phatjose

Rock Star
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Oct 2, 2007
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pokerstars Game #17750651899: Hold'em No Limit ($0.10/$0.25) - 2008/05/28 - 12:02:40 (ET)
Table 'Hirundo' 9-max Seat #2 is the button
Seat 1: Vandalar ($30.45 in chips)
Seat 2: Bigmike60 ($35.90 in chips)
Seat 3: FoldForFood ($5.95 in chips)
Seat 4: YingYang82 ($21.40 in chips)
Seat 5: aqajoon ($49.75 in chips)
Seat 6: phatjose ($36.25 in chips)
Seat 7: NYPaul1 ($12 in chips)
Seat 8: VVay2good4u ($25 in chips)
Seat 9: donOmar86 ($23.10 in chips)
FoldForFood: posts small blind $0.10
YingYang82: posts big blind $0.25
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to phatjose [Ad Kd]
aqajoon: folds
phatjose: raises $0.75 to $1
NYPaul1: folds
VVay2good4u: folds
donOmar86: folds
Vandalar: folds
Bigmike60: calls $1
FoldForFood: folds
YingYang82: folds
*** FLOP *** [7h Kh 4s]
phatjose: bets $1.50
Bigmike60: calls $1.50
*** TURN *** [7h Kh 4s] [9h]
phatjose: bets $3.25
Bigmike60: calls $3.25
*** RIVER *** [7h Kh 4s 9h] [7s]
phatjose: ??

Villain is 41/23/1.7 over only 17 hands, so not much to go on. What's my my move here and should I have checked the turn?

Forgot to put that this is 25NL in the thread title.
 
c9h13no3

c9h13no3

Is drawing with AK
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Our line on the river is a pretty simple check/call a reasonable bet. Maybe you could make a case for folding, but that's pretty weak.

As far as the turn bet, our opponent's calling range on the flop is like:

Middle Pairs: 88, 99, 7x
Draws: Two hearts, 56
Worse Kings: KQ, KJ, ect.
Stuff that Crushes us: 74, 77, 44
Random Floats

On the turn, hearts get there, and I doubt 7x (or even KT/K9) could sustain another bet. So yeah, I pretty much like checking the turn, and trying to get to showdown cheaply at this point.
 
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Checking the turn gives our opponent the ability to represent the flush, so I think in general a check can be kind of weak. The turn play is pretty read dependent since we will be better suited to pin him on a narrower range. As played, I like a check/call on the river if like c9 said, the bet is reasonable.
 
c9h13no3

c9h13no3

Is drawing with AK
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Checking the turn gives our opponent the ability to represent the flush, so I think in general a check can be kind of weak. The turn play is pretty read dependent since we will be better suited to pin him on a narrower range. As played, I like a check/call on the river if like c9 said, the bet is reasonable.
Being afraid of being bluffed is not a good enough reason to bet the turn. We're OOP, and getting bluffed is a serious part of playing OOP that we've gotta live with.
 
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While I agree with you on that sentiment, I think a lot of the times our hand is good in this spot.
 
c9h13no3

c9h13no3

Is drawing with AK
Joined
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While I agree with you on that sentiment, I think a lot of the times our hand is good in this spot.
Does our hand being good mean that betting is the best way to get value from it? If villain has a worse holding than TPTK, can he sustain a bet here? Are there enough draws that will pay to see the river?
 
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If we are assuming we are ahead, I think we have to bet in this situation. You ask if there are enough draws that will pay to see the river, and I think not. However, there are always possible draws out there, and in this case, the chance of giving our opponent a free river card is not what we want.
 
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Dr_Dick

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Phatjose,

Take the hand history out of the situation and look at the root question, TPTK with scare card on the turn. This is a common situation and you are either in or out of position. In this case out of position.

Basic strategy is to fire a second barrel into a scare card. You don't check because there are too many other plays your opponent could be making here. Most of the time the second barrel will (a) take down the pot or (b) let you know you are in trouble. Being out of position hurts, but it does not change the basic strategy...fire the second barrel and get the information you need.

The river does not help your situation, but I would check and call a reasonable bet as suggested by c9h. If you bet you are only getting raised by a hand that beats you (unless villain has some real stones). A person with a busted draw may bet hoping you fold.
 
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