Thoughts, unhit underpair, forcing action.

tenbob

tenbob

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Villian is a TAG, wasnt running pokertracker at the time so i dont have stats, Ive seen him lay down to a play like this before, I dont think he can play back without a Jack, or a non diamond turn (assuming he was on a draw).


Is C/R on the flop and leading the turn here a good play ? Im giving up if he calls my turn bet.

This is NOT a play I make all that often. I do it occasionaly, and when someone does it to me, I give them credit for a monster. Id lay down AA in the face of this kinda aggression.


pokerstars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (9 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)
UTG ($28.25)
UTG+1 ($58.60)
MP1 ($106.15)
MP2 ($47)
MP3 ($8.85)
CO ($9.25)
Button ($55.50)
Hero ($46.50)
BB ($29.50)
Preflop: Hero is SB with 4
spade.gif
, 4
diamond.gif
.

1 fold, UTG+1 calls $0.50, 1 fold, MP2 raises to $2, 3 folds, Hero calls $1.75, 1 fold, UTG+1 folds.

Flop: ($5) J
spade.gif
, 5
diamond.gif
, J
diamond.gif
(2 players)

Hero checks, MP2 bets $3, Hero raises to $9, MP2 calls $6.
Turn: ($23) 9
heart.gif
(2 players)

Hero bets $10
 
joosebuck

joosebuck

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i tend to check call / lead innocuous turns in lieu of c/r and then leading. helps keep the pot under control since you dont exactly know where you stand.
 
tosborn

tosborn

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I don't make that bet here. Villains range could include AJ, KJ, any Ax
diamond.gif
, J9 suited. K9
diamond.gif
, all of which would justify making this call. If you get a smooth call here then what.

I would check to find out where he is. If he is TAG, he probably has put you on a made hand and will only raise with a winner.
 
ChuckTs

ChuckTs

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I like the play. More often than not we are either ahead of villain or we can make a better hand fold. I dunno about AA folding here (I've had plenty of TAGs make this play on me with similar hands to yours). The problem is that we invest kind of an unnecessary amount of chips to win a small pot.

i tend to check call / lead innocuous turns in lieu of c/r and then leading. helps keep the pot under control since you dont exactly know where you stand.

Good point. The problem with this is that we give him a chance to catch up with what is most probably overcards; our pair can be counterfeited too. We're pretty much never making AA or another big pair fold here either.

Without reads, I generally check-fold small pairs, but with reads I'll play back occasionally on 'scary' flops like this, or at least flops that are unlikely to have hit him.
 
ChuckTs

ChuckTs

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I don't make that bet here. Villains range could include AJ, KJ, any Ax
diamond.gif
, J9 suited. K9
diamond.gif
, all of which would justify making this call. If you get a smooth call here then what.

I would check to find out where he is. If he is TAG, he probably has put you on a made hand and will only raise with a winner.

His range also includes a bunch of hands that we can force out like AT, AQ+, KQ, 66-88, etc etc. We can make plenty of hands fold.
 
Bombjack

Bombjack

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Obviously you're bluffing and can't hope to be up against a weaker hand unless he has a strong draw (i.e. high flush). I don't much like the play here - I'd just fold the flop, but if you must bluff, make it pot-size, because he's unlikely to fold a big draw. I also think you rep the Jack better by calling on the flop and check-raising the turn. That way you also leave yourself with the option of a cheap showdown if he has just overs and doesn't bet the turn.
 
Lafaena

Lafaena

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bet more

Bet bigger on the turn, pot or close to it. You want him to fold underpairs to the jacks, draws and maybe overpairs here. With that bet he may just stay in with all of theese, depending on the player.
 
D

drtofu66

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Mar 3, 2007
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This is higher than the stakes I play, but--
The smoothcall on the flop looks like AA-JJ here, maybe AJ (though I doubt it-- I think he's reraising with AJ), AdKd, AdQd, or KdQd. I think your play works better on a rainbow paired board. If I'm him, I'm putting YOU on the FD with your flop CR-- and especially with your smallish blocking-betish turn lead. The way this hand is playing out, he wants to show down his big pair or he's going to chase his FD. I'm guessing that he shoved on the turn?
 
D

Dingodaddy23

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i don't mind this as long as you dont do it too much. if you're going to play 4/4 out of the SB you sometimes have to make moves because you will lose money in the long run if you fold every single time you don't hit a set, and this isnt a bad board to do it on. theres a decent chance you have the best hand right now but there is a ton of turn cards you don't want to see, and the turn will probably at least give him more outs against you. the only problem I have with it is your bet size on the turn, i would bet 17- 19. 10 into 23 looks weak and is an easy call for an overpair, and once he calls that, he may feel pot committed even if you shove (bluff) river
 
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