Things that you never Thought could happen

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kankerstein

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I was playing earlier today on a Very loose 10/20 NL 6 player table at FTP.
I was up almost 500 on the day already, and in the 1st Position ive got Aces. The one seat folds and the 2nd Seat bumps it from $20 to $80 now i'm thinking Yes. A nice winner maybe, but the 3rd seat who is the only one im scared of because he had twice as many chips as me (he had $3400 and I had $2160.23) he Reraises to $240 and well now im Smiling from ear to ear but the 4th seat Reraises! and the 5th seat Calls! and im sitting here with Aces! Now Im thinking I have to put in now almost $800 dollars against 3 very tight players 1 maniac and the flop could be terrible. I think for awhile and finally I let the aces go. Now 3 of the 4 go all in! one shows Aces also the other Kings and the Maniac 109s in Spades! How he made this call I have no idea but the flop comes 1099 and he flops a Boat while the kings and Aces dont improve. The guy who folded said he had Queens! and wouldve rivered the Better fullboat the Maniac gets paid off almost $4000 dollars and both the guys holding aces and kings are broke and of course the Maniac runs like a coward.

How do you think I should have played this? The way I did or maybe Called?

Thx John:eek: :rolleyes: :D
 
titans4ever

titans4ever

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I think you did the right thing. I know you had AA and have the best odds of winning the hand. The problem is even AA will not win 50% of the time against 3 or 4 players.

Nice lay down. Bet you were really glad when you saw someone else with AA and all your outs gone.
 
joosebuck

joosebuck

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i dont believe this story. if you're playing 10/20nl and dont know this is an easy shove, i dont know what to tell you.
 
K

kankerstein

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Well of Course

I mean anyone who will fold aces will assume they might have made the wrong play I know I did all that money up for grabs, but I also wasnt in any mood to lose that kind of money either and with all the raising and reraising you would think even someone with Kings would be pissing there pants thinking the other Three had him dominated with Aces. Ive thrown away Kings plenty of times preflop with an excellent read but aces thats awhole different story. Thank you for the comment. i know now it was an excellent laydown. It's scary how many bullet's ive dodged this week. I know Karma will be kicking my ass later.:deal:
 
Irexes

Irexes

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I'm still confused how it was an excellent laydown.

EV it's an easy push.

If you are folding Aces preflop in a cash game you are playing scared and underrolled.
 
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alan1983

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I think AA is still above 50% even with 4 players. Besides were getting like 3-1 on a hand thats way more than that 2 win.

Easy call everytime in a cash game.
 
K

kankerstein

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Well come on you have to consider there are 3 players who normally dont play a hand unless they know they've got the pot, and all 3 of them are raising, reraising and Calling that Raise. You would think AK or AQ are not being held Jacks and Queens are probably gonna fall out. The maniac and chipleader could have any two cards himself. I was focusing on the Tight Players maybe they've got Aces and I have no Outs. Then all the Maniac has to do is Improve to 2 pair and Im done. I guess alittle of it was Nerves because Ive been playing so long Ive seen so many things happen, that I thought well Maybe i can get aces in a much better situation. So I did fold but mainly because of them being so tight and then suddenly playing so aggressive.
 
Irexes

Irexes

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Here you go.

13,559,895,888 games 29.664 secs 457,116,231 games/sec
Board:
Dead:
equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 55.721% 51.86% 03.86% 7032177530 523522436.50 { AA }
Hand 1: 13.896% 13.73% 00.17% 1861405468 22813593.50 { QQ+ }
Hand 2: 15.487% 11.77% 03.72% 1595968414 504100260.50 { QQ+ }
Hand 3: 14.896% 14.55% 00.35% 1972331460 47576725.50 { 77+, AQs+, KQs, QJs, JTs, T9s, 98s, 87s, 76s, AQo+, KQo, QJo, JTo, T9o, 98o, 87o, 76o }
 
Irexes

Irexes

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If you put them on the exact cards here's the split. Still positive EV albeit only just.

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 30.518% 02.03% 28.49% 3171024 44555166.00 { AA }
Hand 1: 30.518% 02.03% 28.49% 3171024 44555166.00 { AA }
Hand 2: 18.128% 18.07% 00.06% 28258488 91710.00 { QQ }
Hand 3: 20.835% 20.78% 00.06% 32490864 91710.00 { T9s }
 
K

kankerstein

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Well okay I see there's arguement about this move. Well then again I could be talking about this argument with almost 8k in bankroll or none at all, I'm sure everyone agrees they'd rather look at the hand let it go and be glad there not out $8000 dollars. Now if there is any arugment with that please let me know. It turns out I mightve made the bad play preflop but in the long run it doesnt matter what you have preflop what matters is if this hand can holdup till the river. If you lose a huge pot like this and then say well I had aces but they just didnt hold up how would you feel because it doesnt matter in the end what cards you had but who has the money Doesnt it? Thanks for the opinions guys there were great.
 
Irexes

Irexes

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Not wishing to be rude, but do you know what EV is?

Cause if you are playing 10/20 without understanding concepts like that you are heading for trouble my friend.

From your post it sounds like you were playing with your entire bankroll in front of you. If so for your own sake please stop.
 
K

kankerstein

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EV= expected value it just means if your in some scenario in the long run what will happen with a certain Hand Yes I know all about it. My point is I folded bottomline because of nerves and the players raising when they normally wouldnt. Okay I understand the whole math of poker but sometime you just have to drop the math books and say is it worth it. To me it wasnt.
After all they are just Cards, why not pick a better situation and have one person Dominated for all his money?
 
RiverNoHelp

RiverNoHelp

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EV= Expected value it just means if your in some scenario in the long run what will happen with a certain Hand Yes I know all about it. My point is I folded bottomline because of nerves and the players raising when they normally wouldnt. Okay I understand the whole math of poker but sometime you just have to drop the math books and say is it worth it. To me it wasnt.
After all they are just Cards, why not pick a better situation and have one person Dominated for all his money?


You make an interesting point, however if you aren't willing to get all your money in with the best starting hand in hold'em then what will you do it with.. You mentioned that three tight players ahead of you are raising and re-raising while at the same time failing to realize that no matter what they have you have them dominated(save for one of the other players who had aces also, which is an extreme example).. Poker is a game of edges and you had the edge regardless of the results.. Getting your money in as the favorite is all you can hope for then it's for the poker gods to sort it out.. You are being really results oriented and in my opinion besides Tilt that is one of the worst characteristics for a poker player to have.. I'm not taking a holier than though approach, so please don't think i'm attacking you. We are all here to make each other better poker players..This is just my humble opinion, however I feel that the majority of the players on this site will agree with me on this situation.
 
Bombjack

Bombjack

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i dont believe this story. if you're playing 10/20nl and dont know this is an easy shove, i dont know what to tell you.
qft
I was playing earlier today on a Very loose 10/20 NL 6 player table at FTP.
Now Im thinking I have to put in now almost $800 dollars against 3 very tight players 1 maniac and the flop could be terrible.
 
K

kankerstein

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Okay RiverNoHelp. I do agree with you, I did not say it wasnt a good move what I did I was thinking okay, lets see what these guys could possibly have. I mean the truth is I couldve been in a Dominating Position where one person have Kings another Queens another maybe 10's or Jacks I do know this. Now I figured if this was true, the players would have slowed down. I guess I just went with my gut and also once again it was almost my nerves that tell me to lay this hand down.

This second part goes to Irexes those Odds seem alittle off to me because of the fact that the guy holding queens also layeddown. Now at 29-30% odds of winning, that does not exactly give me a strong enough stomach to call and see 5 cards for almost my entire bankroll. You would want maybe 50 to almost 60 or even more before making that kind of committment. Now maybe people with hundreds of millions could make this call, but ive worked for this money and Yes i couldve doubled up but the fact is I wouldnt have. All I wanted was a better situation for Aces because afterall it is only a pair, the Nuts preflop not postflop. Thanks everyone youve been very helpful! :)
 
Arjonius

Arjonius

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To be honest, I might well fold. However, I don't think folding is good poker. Even if it ends up being a five-way pot, AA is going to be somewhere around 50% to win. Given that the pot will be more than double your stack, EV is quite positive.

Perhaps the key here is whether you'd make the call in a lower stakes game. Let's say we divide all the numbers by 10 or even 20. If you'd call then, it means you were playing above your psychological comfort zone. And that's not good poker.
 
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DukeDrew

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I would have pushed my money in and started doing cartwheels. Not trying to jump on the bandwagon here, but you've got the best possible pre-flop hand, and it's all about the math. *shrug* That's just my 2 cents, coming from the minor leagues.
 
edge-t

edge-t

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10/20NL? AA preflop with 3 all-ins?

First, I'd crap my pants, hit the all-in button, run and hide behind my couch(taking an occasional peep at the laptop), check after a minute. I expect someone to suckout, really. Suckouts? no problem, hammer the wall with my fists, while shouting: "YOU FU*King CU*T!! T9s? Do you even know how to play poker?!!"

Afterwhich I'd hit the gym, sleep it off and hit the tables again 3 days later, knowing that I've made the right move.

Really, laying down AA preflop, what were you thinking? I know I'm not playing that high a limit(I'm on $10NL, if you wanna laugh at me, go ahead :D)

The only chance I'm laying down AA preflop to all-in raise, is when I know he's holding the only hand better then AA preflop: 72o. The best damn hand.

"You have to gambool to win!" Sam Farha.
 
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