So aggravated, what would you do?

A

AutoArt

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So far I've been pretty doing pretty good within the last month in building my bankroll. I went from $50 to $130 in less then a month, I know this isn't as fast as some people make money but I've had a lot of up ups and downs. For the last week or so I have been losing everything I played. MTT's, HU, SNG's, ring pot limit, fixed, and no limit holdem, and ring omaha. I haven't been playing any worse than I usualy play, maybe I have though I just don't see it, I'm not really sure but to me it doesn't seem like I'm playing any different. I usually play a little over my bankroll but play at something that won't make me go broke but somewhere where I'm comfortable playing. So far within the last couple week or so I've gone from $130 to $72 back up to $120 then falling all the way down to $38. This might be because I'm playing a lot more $4 180 person sng's and less cash games. But last night I went back to play $.10/$.25(I know, over my BR) cash games and just lost a lot of my money to similar situations as this.

Stacks: - MP1 with $25.00 - MP2 with $16.00 - MP3 with $14.45 - CO with $26.00 - BTN with $6.95 - SB with $8.70 - BB with $21.80 - UTG with $28.35 - UTG+1 with $14.45



index.pl

Blinds: $0.00/$0.00
Site: pokerstars
- Dealt to MP1:
ts.gif
:js4:
- Sklansky group 3
Preflop:
- UTG calls [$0.25]
- 1 players fold.
- Hero calls [$0.25]
- MP2 calls [$0.25]
- MP3 calls [$0.25]
- 1 players fold.
- BTN raises $0.75 to $1
- SB calls [$0.90]
- 2 players fold.
- Hero calls [$0.75]
- MP2 calls [$0.75]
- MP3 calls [$0.75]
- Total folds this street: 4
- Potsize: $5.5
Flop:
-
:5d4: :7c4: :8d4:
- SB: checks
- Hero: checks
- MP2 bets [$0.25]
- MP3 raises $0.25 to $0.50
- BTN calls [$0.50]
- SB calls [$0.50]
- Hero calls [$0.50]
- MP2 calls [$0.25]
- Potsize: $8
Turn:
-
:5h4:
- SB: checks
- Hero: checks
- MP2 bets [$0.25]
- MP3 raises $0.25 to $0.50
- BTN calls [$0.50]
- SB calls [$0.50]
- Hero calls [$0.50]
- MP2 calls [$0.25]
- Potsize: $10.5
River:
-
:jc4:
- SB: checks
- Hero: checks
- MP2: checks
- MP3 bets [$0.50]
- 1 players fold.
- SB raises $6.20 to $6.70 [ all-in ]
- 2 players fold.
- MP3 calls [$6.20]
- Total folds this street: 3
Results:
- SB shows a pair of Fives:
-
:6d4: :ad4:
- MP3 shows two pair, Jacks and Fives:
-
:jd4: :9d4:
- MP3 collected $22.75 from pot

Poker Hand Converter By Cardschat.com Poker Forum

Here's the link if nobody can see it https://www.cardschat.com/hand/1314


If you're wondering why I called all the way down the river is because I was getting WAY to good of odds to lay it down.

It seems like most hands that I'm in people are doing this exact same thing. Betting with nothing, raising with nothing, going all in when they didn't even hit a flop. In this situation I'm getting good odds to call here but the guy could have a lot of different types of hands that easily beat me. I've also been at the table for probably around 20 hands or so and I haven't seen this person once go all in, plus he hasn't been playing too many pots. Is it because I'm playing scared and figure that people have a better hand then me?

Thank god that my sign up bonus came in last night and I'm back up to $85 now. I need a couch or something to teach me stuff lol. I've decided I'm going to stop playing for a while and only play micro mtt's and freerolls, I'm just going to go back and read my books until I feel like I've improved my game and BR to go back to playing bigger games.

Sorry for the rant and sorry if a lot of it is written kind of choppy, I'm still a little tired and aggravated from the last couple of weeks.
 
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T

ts69even3

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Jan 8, 2008
Total posts
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so I am guessing u had the j10? U should have folded, IMO, post flop... u really had no draw other then gutshot... and chasing 4 outs at most... and u had only 3 since the diamond is dead for you... calling on the river with bets all the way down and u just calln showed strength on there part and weakness on urs
 
c9h13no3

c9h13no3

Is drawing with AK
Joined
Jan 2, 2007
Total posts
8,819
I hate multi-way pots. Hate hate hate them. There are too many opponents, and you have no idea where you stand. Maybe you're more comfortable mixing it up 5-way, but I'm not. But here are some points you need to consider:

1) You have 3 clean outs. The 9 of diamonds gives someone a flush (obviously). I wouldn't count your outs to a J or T because it completes someone else's straight, or someone has a bigger J or T, or someone already has a set/two pair.

2) With your 3 outs, you are 6% likely to hit it by the turn (~16:1), and you're getting 15:1 on your call. So I don't mind the call on the turn.

3) On the turn, the board has paired. It is highly likely someone is slowplaying trip 5's here, just because of the number of players in the hand. If someone has a boat already, your outs to a straight just got nixed. You're still getting phenominal pot odds to draw to your straight, however, that's really the only thing you can call some river action with.

4) There's no way you can call this river, with this many opponents, with this action. Unless you know these guys are very loose, its very likely they have you beaten.

I generally don't like playing "longshot" type pots, where you have slim outs, but you're still getting decent odds to draw to them. They'll pan out so little, that it will take a lot of pots like that to show any decent profit.

So yeah, if it were me, I would definately consider folding this hand UTG+2. You're going to be out of position in a big way, and its just hard to be aggressive when you're in a flop with that many people. If its not good enough to get in there and raise with, then its probably not worth calling.

But you didn't lose much money either (2$), so in the grand scheme of things it wasn't a terribly played hand. I just like to avoid these tough spots in general. And from the looks of it, this game is mega loose. You should definitely be playing tighter on a loose table like this.
 
OzExorcist

OzExorcist

Broomcorn's uncle
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I think I throw this away as soon as the button raises pre-flop - after you've called that, you're just spewing chips. In small increments, granted, but still spewing chips.

JTs is a problem hand - a lot of the time if you're filling in your draws with them, you're filling in the bottom end against the higher cards that people like to play.

There's a theory that says if your hand is good enough to call with, you might as well raise it. I don't necessarily subscribe to it because there's plenty of situations where I think flat calls are appropriate. But if you find yourself check-calling like this often, maybe thinking "would I raise this hand - even occasionally?" will help you put it in perspective.

And Ch9 is right - if action like there was in this pot is common for the table, then all you should have to do is sit back, wait for a good hand and then get paid off handsomely. No reason to mess about with marginal hands like JTs.
 
A

AutoArt

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Oct 1, 2007
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Usually I don't chase straights if somebody is betting a decent amount of money, but the odds were just ridiculous in this situation to not call. I'm not that particularly aggravated with this hand but poker in general lately. Things like this and other times where I lay down decent hands only to have been bluffed or people catching ridiculous rivers is whats getting to me the most. I wanted to post this hand because when situations similar to this hand happen I just usually end up folding but people end up wining with the most retarded hands. It makes me wonder if I should be playing looser or different because the looser I see people play the more money they usually end up making, where as I am losing money by playing tight. The whole time I played at this table I was playing tight, I only saw 28% of the flops and I never had a problem with protecting my blinds if somebody raised and I didn't have good cards. Whenever I did get good cards like AA or when I flopped a straight flush nobody wanted to play, and thats how its been for the last couple of weeks! I lose money to people playing like retards and getting lucky or just not flopping anything for good for 3 hours at a time.

Thanks for the replies, I appreciate the feedback.
 
OzExorcist

OzExorcist

Broomcorn's uncle
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Just a bit more feedback in that case - seeing 28% of flops means you're playing about one in every three-four hands. That ain't exactly textbook tight, though it likely includes hands you're in the blinds. You don't have an idea of your $VPIP figure?

Also, JTs isn't a good hand. You'll notice the HA software puts it in Sklansky Group 3. That's not to say you should never play it, but at this table I think you can wait for a better spot.

Could be this is one of the leaks in your game.
 
c9h13no3

c9h13no3

Is drawing with AK
Joined
Jan 2, 2007
Total posts
8,819
Also, JTs isn't a good hand in early position, when the button raised you, and your table is so loose that they'll go all in on the river with ace high against 5 other opponents.
Fixed. JTs is a great hand and has earned me a lot of money. But in this *situation* its downright terrible. You're exactly right that this should have been folded preflop once it came around to you.

At tables like these you aren't out to make marginal hands. You want to make *very* strong holdings and punish your loose opponents with pot-sized bets & raises.

Also, you still didn't have odds to draw to the straight (16:1 draw with 15:1 pot odds = fold).
 
A

AutoArt

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No, I don't know my $VPIP figures because I don't have any software yet. I usually see anywhere between 20%-30% of the flops. But you both are right, this should of just been a fold pre-flop, I dont know by I played it. It was either because I was tired or because I was mixing in J T like I do in MTT's once in a while for variance. It probably is a leak in my game too because maybe I get bored sometimes or tired and just start playing hands like this. Thanks for your feedback guys.
 
SubT33

SubT33

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Also, you still didn't have odds to draw to the straight (16:1 draw with 15:1 pot odds = fold).

You have to figure in some implied odds here, so I don't mind the call on the turn, but I think you get the point that you should have folded to the pre-flop raise.

It makes me wonder if I should be playing looser or different because the looser I see people play the more money they usually end up making, where as I am losing money by playing tight.

If they are playing looser, you should be playing tighter. Are you sure you're being aggressive? And we're not saying only play AA, KK. It's hard for me to believe that when you made a hand, you couldn't get any of these loose passives to give you some action. My guess is you might be a little more loose passive then you might think.
 
B

baconn

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you should have called the river. the way the hand played it looks like everyone was chasing something and didn't catch. did u actually think someone had a big PP or a 5 in their hand? c'mon.
 
c9h13no3

c9h13no3

Is drawing with AK
Joined
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you should have called the river. the way the hand played it looks like everyone was chasing something and didn't catch. did u actually think someone had a big PP or a 5 in their hand? c'mon.
Against that many opponents, yes. A single 5 is very likely. Or QJ. Or J8, or 78, ect. ect. Making that call will be a losing proposition in the long run unless he has awesome reads on both players. Maybe next time his opponet will be holding QJ of diamonds instead of J9. You just can't call a shove & a call with just top pair no kicker on that board.

And I know what you mean about getting bored AutoArt. It can be really grinding to play lower limits. Sometimes multi-tabling helps, but then its hard to observe your opponents and gets reads on them. And at lower limits, getting good notes on your opponents is huge because it really helps you figure out who are the total retards, and who are the sharks. At higher limits, you'll face mostly sane players, but at lower limits you'll face really really bad players, and pretty good ones as well. So it helps to have it sorted out who's who.

Try listening to music, occupying yourself by keeping notes on the other players, and maybe playing 1 additional table. Sometimes that can take the monotony out of waiting for hands against super-loose tables.

Also, you might want to do some better table selection. If you play best at tighter tables, try looking for tables that have a low % seeing the flop, and smaller pots. Or maybe play some short handed games if you want to play hands more often. There are a lot of ways to tailor what game you play to fit your playstyle, rather than the other way around.
 
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ratmantoo

ratmantoo

Visionary
Joined
Sep 9, 2007
Total posts
695
Holy Smokes...that looks like one of my hands.

Ive had the same over the past few weeks. I analyzed my hands the hard way - text line by line. And as SubT33 posted I realized I was being loose passive. Changed my game a bit (Big post its on my screen -BE AGGRESSIVE!!...lol) and I was able to get back in it again and have recouped almost all my losses.

I would suggest downloading the trial version of PT (1000 hands but at least its something)

As to the hand. Have to agree fold preflop to the raise unless you have pegged the player as very loose and can put them on a small connectors etc(BTN is a bit short but its a cash game). Post flop - we got no part of the flop, fold it - a flush draw, straight and straight draw are on the table / possible. Sure we have a chance of making a bigger straight and are getting the odds to call but the situation with so many players in the pot is just too iffy for my liking.

Advice given to me was to play ABC poker for a bit. Don't get fancy with bluffs and slow plays. Bet your hands as if you were playing against a machine until you have built up your confidence again. This has certainly helped me. I found when I was "down" I talked my way out of winning hands aswell

Anyways...all the best on the felt

RAT
 
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