Should I or shouldn't I

Boltneck

Boltneck

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Joined
Nov 1, 2007
Total posts
246
First of all, apologies for not using the hand converter, but the logs are in XML format and don't work. I tried to copy and paste from PT, and the conversion works, but I'm showing as villain and villain as hero. As I'm posting this HH for a quite specific purpose, I've not given the result, and will not say (yet) my specific reason for posting.

I would very much welcome any comments on how this hand was played, and what you think the result was. I will explain more later.


FL cash game 50c / $1
Villains PT stats
Observed hand 375
VP$IP 26.7
PFR 5.7
Post Flop AF 1.1

Villain red. Hero in bold

Seat 2: Mwolf23655 ($29.50 in chips)
Seat 3: Nargo ($23.75 in chips)
Seat 4: Furong500 ($14.15 in chips)
Seat 5: ssboltdd ($65.71 in chips)
Seat 6: x37x37 ($13.80 in chips)
Seat 7: AdmiralGanja ($25.70 in chips)
Seat 8: Pansanias ($54.73 in chips)
Seat 9: thesharkkiller ($32.88 in chips)
Seat 10: PretenderV1 ($19.00 in chips) DEALER
Mwolf23655: Post SB $0.25
Nargo: Post BB $0.50
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Furong500 ??
Dealt to ssboltdd [SK CK]
Furong500: Raise $1.00
ssboltdd: Raise $1.50
x37x37: Fold
AdmiralGanja: Fold
Pansanias: Fold
thesharkkiller: Call $1.50
PretenderV1: Fold
Mwolf23655: Fold
Nargo: Fold
Furong500: Call $0.50
*** FLOP *** [S2 DJ H9]
Furong500: Check
ssboltdd: Bet $0.50
thesharkkiller: Call $0.50
Furong500: Call $0.50
*** TURN *** [H4]
Furong500: Check
ssboltdd: Bet $1.00
thesharkkiller: Call $1.00
Furong500: Raise $2.00
ssboltdd: Call $1.00
thesharkkiller: Call $1.00
*** RIVER *** [D8]
Furong500: Bet $1.00
ssboltdd: Call $1.00
thesharkkiller: Fold
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $14.25
 
Q

QE2P

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Dec 22, 2007
Total posts
2
Re: Should I or Shouldn't I

Looks to me like he hit his straight. A small chance he hit a set of 8s on the river. There's almost nothing he could have making a bet like this that you could still beat.

There's no way you could raise here, but with around 13:1 on your money, a call isn't horrible, though probably not the best play mathematically. Even so, no way I'd get away from that for another bet.
 
Boltneck

Boltneck

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Nov 1, 2007
Total posts
246
To hit a straight he would have needed QT. With a PFR of 5.7, I would not have expected a pre flop raise with QT.

I had him figured for either AJ or JJ (with 99 an outside possibility). His check raise on gthe turn sounded the panic button, so I called his raise, and subsequent river bet.

As it happens, he was holding AJ. If I had been more aggressive, I could have got at least another couple of BB's from him. I've been in very similar situations recently, and each time i've taken the cautious approach. I suspect I suspect that I'm being too cautious, and as a result not maximising my potential profit.
 
J

joeeagles

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Mar 24, 2007
Total posts
1,114
Boltneck, the way you had him figured is almost a classic WA or WB. I'm not sure what the best way is to handle that in fixed limit. You chose the safe way. The fact he check/raised the turn rather than the flop doesn't really give you any certainty about the strength of his hand. He might make such a move with AJ because he figures he's now crushing any stronger or weaker A, which ultimately is the reason he did it and you knew there was a decent chance of that.

As far as losing value, that's just a maybe, because pot was 3-way. On the turn you flat called the check/raise and that kept 3rd villain in the hand. If you raise again he might fold, which is not a bad thing because keeping him in gives him a chance to outdraw you. But I'm just trying to say that if you raise and 3rd villain folds, on the river pot could be same amount, and at that point, after your turn 4bet raise, the remaining villain could just go in check/call mode. Sorry I know all that is a bit confusing but I'm just trying to show you that even if you raise the turn you might end up with a pot that has the same size of the one you took down, although in this scenario it's only 2 seeing the river so less chances of getting outdrawn.

I don't think you played this bad, because your hand, even if very strong, didn't improve and you were squeezed in the middle of both players. The turn didn't complete any straights but that doesn't necessarily mean you were ahead. You got check/raised with a player left to act. I'm not saying you have to be worried that 3rd villain is going to raise again because he didn't the first time, but you start to wonder if you're ahead or behind. I think I play it the same way you did on the turn, and after that 8 showed up on the river again I think I'd just call because QT is certainly in 3rd villain's range. Given how passively he played this he does look like he's on some kind of draw. Maybe a limit expert would play this differently, but to me your line looks fine.

I think the better question is this. If the pot were HU rather than being 3-way, what would you do? Would you raise at some point, on the turn or river? Or play it the same way you did? Because if pot were HU then value comes into play even more than it does now.
 
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