Should I have been able to fold my QQ?

K

Kknight78

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Hi Everybody,

I'm afraid that I don't have the hand history readily available, but this is a basic enough question that my description should suffice.

I have a small question regarding a hand I had in a FR 0.10/0.20 Fixed Limit game:

I raised QQ pre-flop in position and had two callers (BB and MP I think, but it doesn't really matter)

The flop came 3 T T

The two callers checked to me and I bet

One player folded, the other check-raised

I went into calldown mode and called him all the way to the showdown (he bet both the turn and the river which were both low rags)

I knew he had a ten, and sure enough he ended up showing me down with KTo

My question is should I have folded the flop, or at worst folded when the turn didn't show a Q, knowing that I was beat and only had 2 outs? I most definitely wasn't getting the pot odds to call, but found it so hard to lay down a big overpair, even on a paired board. My implied odds may have been decent, but I'm thinking still probably not good enough to justify calling it all the way down.

Thanks,
Kknight78
 
shinedown.45

shinedown.45

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I almost always fold in these situation unless villian is more likely to try and bluff this flop and you have a good read on villian.
I've folded AA to a paired board, KK with an Ace on board.
Sounds to me that you may need to work on your disipline.
As for your hand here, the check-raise was a classic show of real strength here.
 
J

joeeagles

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Paired boards are a problem because a lot of people love betting into them, although the check/raise is a stronger play and usually, just usually, its a sign they have it. In that circumstance the reason they go for the check/raise is because if they bet into the pot they lose value because opponents might easily fold, where instead if they check, someone might throw a bet there because like I said people do it often on paired boards. More often than not a check/raise is a bad sign in that scenario, as Shine also mentioned, unless you know its a tricky player.

In the doubt I think you probably should go in check/call mode, but you're saying you know you were beat, which I assume means you know this opponent very well, so then you should fold. I really don't play much fixed limit and there are some here that play it often and can answer you better on how to play it when in doubt if he's being tricky, I wouldn't exclude some might say to reraise on the flop where its only half bet, and then fold if he fires on the turn, since you have position in this hand. Don't take my word for it though.
 
K

Kknight78

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Thank you both for your replies.

shinedown - You are correct, I have recently recognized the fact that I have a tendency to overplay pocket pairs (especially low ones) and overcards. Having identified these leaks, I've been concentrating on plugging them. :)

joeeagles - On the contrary, I did not know the first thing about this particular opponent...but I have been told (and have found it to be true) that when it comes to Micro-Limit Fixed Limit games, the check-raise is almost NEVER used by most opponents unless they have a very strong hand (at least two-pair or better.) It is almost never used as a bluff at the Micro-Limits, although it is in the Medium and High-Limit games. Respecting check-raises (even more so on the turn when the bets are doubled) is something else I have been working on. So that is the reason that I say I was confident that he had on of the other Ts...and my read turned out to be correct...he even had a strong kicker to boot. :) With all that in mind, I'd be reluctant to re-raise the check-raise on the flop (although I'd have certainly raised a donk-bet) and feel that either an immediate fold or more likely a call with the idea of folding to a further turn bet would have been better than calling to the showdown as I did.

Thanks again...and any further thoughts/insights are appreciated!

Kknight
 
beardyian

beardyian

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As nice as QQ looks you should always remember that AA or KK have you beat from the start - so whilst the 'ladies' are nice to hold, you shouldnt get married to them.

When the check raise came on the flop that really should have been your get out point, painful as it is, but you save more by folding than chasing another card.

In the long run aggression is a thing to have, but also knowing when to fold is a lot better :)
 
K

Kknight78

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Thanks for the advice beardyian. I didn't think AA or KK were likely holdings based on the pre-flop action, but I see your point nonetheless. I did much better yesterday and today with being able to fold pocket pairs that were likely beaten.

Thanks,
Kknight
 
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