S/H NLHE hand: slowplay?

ChuckTs

ChuckTs

Legend
This happened in the same session as in the other hand analysis thread i posted.
Villain is a complete donkey who I couldn't pin a playing style on as he made several very strange plays.
I made a couple of tough calls like this one that session which thankfully put me ahead for the day.
Opinions?
 

Attachments

  • fdafdsafd.JPG
    fdafdsafd.JPG
    82.4 KB · Views: 53
zinzan1000

zinzan1000

Legend
Normally you would get a lot of posts saying you were weak on the turn etc, but as I have jumped in, that may not be the case now.
Your check on the turn IMO induced your opponent to raise you on the river, thus giving you a nice little pot.
You are scaring me a little Chuck lol, you keep saying you cant read these guys, but it looks to me like you have there number.

zinzan1000 be lucky
 
gord962

gord962

Legend
You played that great. You got to see the flop for free and showed weakness by not betting, then a decent bet on the river to make it look like you were buying the pot. Villian sees it all as a sign of weakness and re-raises. Great stuff!!!
 
t1riel

t1riel

Legend
Ok, by looking at the fact you going to call this guy's raise with Ace-rag suited, it's a good idea to stick to your plan of being aggressive with this hand unless the flop looks dangerous.
Your opponent checked so you bet a big amount. This is a good move here. Stay aggressive! Your opponent knows you have a good hand but yet he/she decides to stay with medium pocket pair with two overcards on the flop. He/she has to know you have the Ace yet he/she is chasing the set.
When the turn came up, your opponent checks again. Now, either the opponenet is scared of what you have or is slowplaying the nut hand. I would have made a bet here, probably the same amount or more on the flop.
Now, on the river something interesting happens. Your opponent check raises. At this point, you might as well call it since your pot committed at this point. Big pot for you!
Overall, you play it well. I would have bet on the turn but that's nit-picking. Good Job!:)
 
T

The Shakuni

Guest
Yes, you're check on the Turn just made you 30 more dollars. He thought you were pretty weak and just bluffing that you had the Ace. He figured maybe middle pair and tried to scare you out, but nice call in the end. I would say Pot odds would HAVE to make you call. 30 in a 180 dollar pot or 30 in a 150 dollar pot, pretty easy with 5-1 and you can get future reads on tthat person.
 
Lo-Dog

Lo-Dog

Cardschat Elite
All I want to know if why on earth he would check raise you on the river! Horrible bluff. Now if he had hit his trips on the river then maybe I can understand it but you were not going to fold to another $30 so I do not get his play there.

Anyway, keep on winning those big pots man, your rockin!:thrasher:
 
zinzan1000

zinzan1000

Legend
What ensued on the turn may have had a lot to do with it LD.
I'm not sure Chucks thought process was to fool his opponent by checking the turn, but it was the clinical point of the whole pot.
Chucks was still undecided about his opponents playing style, and while a turn bet by Chucks may have taken down the pot, by checking it he became $50 richer, be it by hook or by crook.

zinzan1000
 
spore

spore

Rock Star
Good play there I would say. I will say that I don't like the turn check, it looks alot like a trap. It worked out this time however; a better player probably would have layed it down on the river after you bet, certainly not check-raised with nothing but the board!

Normally this flop would scare me. You could have very well been up against AK, AQ, etc.. with the preflop action. It's not quite as likely since it was short-handed. The problem is that if you are behind on this flop.. there isn't any coming back. So be sure you know where you're at in the hand.

On the other side of the coin. If i were villain in this situation. I would have bet the flop with a small pair like that to see where i was at, or just folded. I certainly wouldn't have cold called with little chance to improve my hand.
 
Last edited:
Four Dogs

Four Dogs

Legend
Chuck. I don't know where to begin. That was just....terrible. I'm not even going waste my time explaining why. I am disapointed in you on so many levels. Do you think winning the pot from that donk justifies the way you played it? That must have been some read you had. I'm not buyin' it.
 
ChuckTs

ChuckTs

Legend
Here is my train of thought during the hand:
(keep in mind these players are complete monkeys)

PF people raise with any pp, ace, king and sometimes queen and jack, and also sometimes with suited connectors. The size of the raise generally changes with the strength of the hand; big means big and vice versa.
PF call, maybe a little sloppy but those are the types of hands you have to play vs. these guys or else you blind yourself out, and they get more aggressive with lesser hands against you.
Flop i bet my ace, he calls. I'm thinking i'm ahead here, or he would have led out. He might have a set but usually they are played very aggressively.
Turn, i check not to induce the river bet, but because i'm being safe. Players often call down with second pair or even bottom pair. His check behind me shows me he's either drawing or hasn't hit his hand - i don't see alot of slowplaying on the table, generally people play their hands pretty fast.
River i('m pretty sure) I'm ahead with him checking into me, so i bet a small/medium amount.
He reraises and that's where i get really confused. My read on him on the flop and turn were very strong that he didn't hit. Then he lets this out-of-line checkraise on the river out. That's why i called, because i followed my gut instinct from earlier in the hand.

I would like to hear your reasons, FD - i respect your opinion and want to see what you felt i did wrong.
 
Four Dogs

Four Dogs

Legend
ChuckTs said:
let 'er rip, FD - i wanna hear it
I knew you would.;)
Ok. here goes.
To start. Why was it necessary to be involved in that mess. You were sandwiched between a raiser and a reraiser with a weak hand. Did you have a plan? If so, I'd sure like to hear it.
So an ace falls on the flop. That's good right? 'Cause you got an ace too. With a pretty darn good kicker. I mean, if you assume that one of your opponents also has an ace, which you should, there ARE only 18 cards better, not to mention the 3 5's and 3 8's. But kleppen checks so you decide to throw $22 out the window with a possibly strong hand behind you. Well, OK, whatever. I guess you musta got all horned up when tverra folded, probably the best hand. But you must have smelled something fishy when kleppen called 'cause you sensible checked back on the turn.

Then it happend, you lost your mind. What possible read could you have had on kleppen that made you that sure he was bluffing? I'll answer for you. None. If you were that sure you should have put him to the test. In my opinion, the way kleppin played that hand was indistinguishable from the real McCoy. Would you have been at all surprised to see A8? Not me.

Chuck, you described this guy as a complete donkey, and he was. But isn't it possible that you let pride influence your betting? You had dropped $36 dollars into a $133 pot and you were damned if you were going to let this donk bluff you out of it.

You got lucky Chuck. I just don't think your hand was strong enough to take that far.
 
ChuckTs

ChuckTs

Legend
To start. Why was it necessary to be involved in that mess. You were sandwiched between a raiser and a reraiser with a weak hand. Did you have a plan? If so, I'd sure like to hear it.

to correct: tverra limped from EP, SB raised and i called along with tverra behind me

One thing that happens at these tables is that just about every hand is raised. Probably 95%. especially when weakness has been shown (EP limper)
If you have a mediocre to strong ace, its a raising hand. A strong ace (AJ-AK) is a reraising hand.
Guys are pretty aggressive at these levels.
If i were to fold A9 every time someone raised in front of me, i'd "go out like broomcorn's uncle" as Doyle Brunson would put it. I'd blind out.

I do see your point though; there were way too many hands out there that could beat me, but again, if i were to fold top pair to a weak river check raise every time, i'd be in the gutter right now.

Good post FD
 
T

thetimmer

Guest
yea i would have made that call to but the last time i made that call on a cash table i had a j of spades 4 of us went to the flop i was in the bb ,the flop come 3 s 10 s a c ,i check i call the bet coming around 3 of us goin to the turn its a j d i check to get a read on the 2 opponents ,naet player goes allin ,i have him covered theother guy folds ,cards are fliped he has poket 3s,all i need is an a ,j or any spadethe river is a dam 5 of d ,lost with 2 pair as and js to a dam set od 3s,that sucked
 
spore

spore

Rock Star
thetimmer, in all fairness... he had you all the way. But it is hard to get away from a nut flush draw.
 
Tammy

Tammy

Moderator
Moderator
Awards
10
ChuckTs said:
Did someone neg. rep. FD for his post?
he was just giving his opinion...
No. That black dot means he has turned reputation off. He's far too cool to concern himself with such trivial matters...;) But I still give him neg. rep all the time. Out of love (he likes it rough). :)

But--I don't know why in the world anyone would neg rep for that post. It was golden for the analysis aspect. GG FD.
 
Dorkus Malorkus

Dorkus Malorkus

HELLO INTERNET
I'm not going to talk about the check on the turn, though I don't think your hand was strong enough to slowplay at that point the topic seems to have deviated from it.

Then it happend, you lost your mind. What possible read could you have had on kleppen that made you that sure he was bluffing? I'll answer for you. None. If you were that sure you should have put him to the test. In my opinion, the way kleppin played that hand was indistinguishable from the real McCoy. Would you have been at all surprised to see A8? Not me.
How about the fact that villain had shown absolutely no post-flop aggression? It's blatantly obvious that unless he's being very tricky (unlikely for the typical titandonk) he's just trying to get to a cheap showdown with a marginal hand. Would he expect Chuck to bet the river (thus enabling him to check-raise) considering that the turn had gone check-check?

I'd expect A8 to lead the flop, wanting it to appear as a weak continuation bet and hoping Chuck had a stronger Ace. If you keep seeing monsters under the bed like this it's the path to becoming overly weak-tight.

That plus the decent pot odds make the river a pretty standard call without any opposing reads.
 
Four Dogs

Four Dogs

Legend
Dorkus Malorkus said:
How about the fact that villain had shown absolutely no post-flop aggression? It's blatantly obvious that unless he's being very tricky (unlikely for the typical titandonk) he's just trying to get to a cheap showdown with a marginal hand.
Cheap? He called a $22 bet on the flop.

Dorkus Malorkus said:
Would he expect Chuck to bet the river (thus enabling him to check-raise) considering that the turn had gone check-check?
Expect? I don't know about that. Hope? Yeah, maybe. Let's not forget, we're not dealing with Dan Harrington here. This is what a slow played hand looks like at these limits.

Dorkus Malorkus said:
If you keep seeing monsters under the bed like this it's the path to becoming overly weak-tight.
Monsters Chris? Really. There were 2 pair on the board, making a full house very likely. OK yeah, when I'm only holding top pair with a weak kicker my knees do start to get a little wobbly.
Dorkus Malorkus said:
That plus the decent pot odds make the river a pretty standard call without any opposing reads.
He could have just checked on the river. The bet didn't help his pot odds.
 
Dorkus Malorkus

Dorkus Malorkus

HELLO INTERNET
Cheap? He called a $22 bet on the flop.
Okay, cheaper than if he'd led the turn/river (though of course we don't know stack sizes, I'm guessing they're relatively deep). I thought this was obvious, but maybe I should be more clear.

Expect? I don't know about that. Hope? Yeah, maybe. Let's not forget, we're not dealing with Dan Harrington here.
Which is why it's more likely that villain is calling with crap. Even most donks will think come the river after a check-check turn something like "ME HAVE GOOD HAND, ME NEED MONEY, ME BET" (except Rob when he flops quads, of course).

Monsters Chris? Really. There were 2 pair on the board, making a full house very likely. OK yeah, when I'm only holding top pair with a weak kicker my knees do start to get a little wobbly.
This is like saying "There are three flush cards on the board, making a flush very likely". He's heads up, and the board has paired 8s and 5s, not as threatening as if Ks and Js had been paired. Yeah, I know donks will call with lots of hands, but it's more likely a boat is out there with a KKJJx board than a 8855x board. Plus, I'm still not buying that villain would try a river c/r given that he's made a boat.

He could have just checked on the river. The bet didn't help his pot odds.
I'm referring to his call of the river raise, not the lead out bet. I don't agree with leading the river myself without major reads, and to think otherwise is being a little results-oriented.

This all seems very simple to me. Villain shows no aggression (just because someone plays passively you can't always assume they're slowplaying or you'd never bet anything but the nuts), and makes a small river raise that has to be called because (a) it makes no sense given previous action, and (b) Hero is getting good pot odds and only needs to be right about calling something like one in four times to profit (too lazy to work it out exactly).

A more interesting problem would be what would hero do here if villain c/r pushed for his last $100 on the river. Then you lose the good pot odds, and the decision becomes far less clear-cut (though the c/r still makes little sense).
 
Starting Hands - Poker Hand Nicknames Rankings - Poker Hands
Top