QJ, $25 shorthanded NL

F Paulsson

F Paulsson

euro love
Villain is loose. Not sure how aggressive he usually is.

On an earlier hand, he bet the flop and immediately folded to a raise, so he's capable of continuation betting with air. I called the flop because I didn't want to scare him off. I was a bit surprised to see him call the turn raise but figured he might be on a flushdraw.

Wth do I do with the river?

A lot of the other streets, if not all of them, are probably questionable as well. I suck at NL - but give a guy who's trying to learn a break :p

pokerstars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (5 handed)http://poker-tools.flopturnriver.com/Hand-Converter.php
SB ($15.85)
BB ($8.55)
Hero ($27.65)
MP ($34.55)
Button ($17.15)
Preflop: Hero is UTG with Q♠, J♥.
Hero calls $0.25, 3 folds, BB raises to $0.75, Hero calls $0.50.
Flop: ($1.60) J♣, 5♦, [10c] (2 players)
BB bets $0.75, Hero calls $0.75.
Turn: ($3.10) 5♣ (2 players)
BB bets $1, Hero raises to $3, BB calls $2.
River: ($9.10) 4♦ (2 players)
BB bets $4.05 (All-In), Hero ...
 
tenbob

tenbob

Legend
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OK FP, ive been guilty of a lot of this sort of play as well. Here is my take on it.

PF ---> Raise or fold. 6Max N/L ring raising from out of position here lets you know exactly where you stand in the hand, either the BB folds/re-raises (at which time you can safely throw you hand away), or calls. But you have gained much more information by limp-calling with a marginal holding.

Flop, again the call here is poor, youve let him away with a continuation bet, raise here or time to get off the hand, youve essentially given a free card.

Turn --- Ok now it gets interesting, youve raised, and gotten called, this looks to be like a play from limit he, you generally should do most of your betting in N/L on the flop and proceed with caution from there, unless you have a hand worthy of setting a trap.

Id safely say your beat at this stage. Seems to me like the BB has a hand that he likes, especially with the push all in on the river, he has to fully expect to be called at this stage, i know i would.

River ------- ^^^^ + Fold. (Unless youve seen any previous plays that indicate different from him)
 
F Paulsson

F Paulsson

euro love
tenbob said:
Turn --- Ok now it gets interesting, youve raised, and gotten called, this looks to be like a play from limit he, you generally should do most of your betting in N/L on the flop and proceed with caution from there, unless you have a hand worthy of setting a trap.

That's interesting. Raising the turn is a typical limit move, and I suppose some of it carried over. At the same time, I'm not giving up a whole of a lot by just checking the flop. I don't have a big hand, and I'd like to keep the pot small at this point. There are also only two cards that I fear.

But having said that, the comment you made that I found interesting was this:

should do most of your betting in N/L on the flop
This I like. I believe I understand why, too.

Mmm, lesson learned!
 
t1riel

t1riel

Legend
I would have raised on the flop. You have top pair and a potential outside straight draw. There is also two clubs so try to drive out the flush chasers.
The raise on the turn is a questionable move but it did give you some information. It's obvious to me this guy got his flush.
When he goes all in on the river, it's obvious the 4 didn't help him. But, he already has his flush and wants to suck more chips out of you. Fold.
 
robwhufc

robwhufc

Cardschat Elite
t1riel said:
It's obvious to me this guy got his flush.
When he goes all in on the river, it's obvious the 4 didn't help him. But, he already has his flush and wants to suck more chips out of you. Fold.
More likely in my opinion he's missed all his draws and he's shoved the chips in as a desperate last attempt to get you to fold. He only had $8 to begin with, has nursed $4 into the pot - he cant give this one up. Also, to have made his flush he'd have needed to have 2 clubs :)o ). He's the only other player that played the hand, so you'd have to say on the balance of probabilities that that was unlikely (obviously if 5 people had entered the pot and only one had stayed in with you on that flop, the flush alarm bells would be ringing)- I'd call, i'd be too curious not to, and if i was beat i'd imagine it would be by 2 pair or bigger kicker - not flush. I've got a sneaky that FP won this though:rolleyes:

But as TB said - raise flop and you'd know where you are.
 
blankoblanco

blankoblanco

plays poker on hard mode
I also think he hit his flush, likely the nuts, since he raised pre-flop. The flop was 2 clubs and FP just called. The turn is another club and FP raises. Look at it from this other guy's perspective. If he DIDN'T have the flush, I think he'd be too afraid of FP having it to be so aggressive.

Of course you do say he's loose. I'd have to see some similar examples of his play to really have a good idea, but this is just my guess.
 
robwhufc

robwhufc

Cardschat Elite
combuboom said:
I also think he hit his flush, likely the nuts, since he raised pre-flop. The flop was 2 clubs and FP just called.
Wouldn't the more usual action be to check with a flush draw, not bet? - if FP hits hand and goes all-in BB wont have odds to call raise, so why bet? And it would have to be the nut flush, else why did BB call on the river and give FP last card? That's a pretty narrow range of cards for someone playing heads up. He could have flush of course, that's just not how I see it.
 
Dorkus Malorkus

Dorkus Malorkus

HELLO INTERNET
You guys are all nearly as bad as tuff_fish as far as being flush-paranoid goes. ;)

I pretty much agree with everything tenbob said, apart from the fact I don't mind just calling OOP preflop against a loose player with a marginal hand.
 
F Paulsson

F Paulsson

euro love
I wonder how this thread would have looked if I had added in what he had.
 
Dorkus Malorkus

Dorkus Malorkus

HELLO INTERNET
F Paulsson said:
I wonder how this thread would have looked if I had added in what he had.

"It was obvious he had a flush/overpair/set (delete as applicable), you should have folded"

or

"You obviously have his tpwk/second pair/total bluff (delete as applicable) beaten, easy call"
 
bubbasbestbabe

bubbasbestbabe

Suckout Queen
Actually the read I most likely would have had on the BB is that he had K Q and was looking for str8 then tried to you off the pot at end. This is one play I have seen time after time on NL
 
robwhufc

robwhufc

Cardschat Elite
bubbasbestbabe said:
Actually the read I most likely would have had on the BB is that he had K Q and was looking for str8 then tried to you off the pot at end. This is one play I have seen time after time on NL
That was my take too - i've done this myself loads of times, and it does work too (as seen by the replies here) - what point is there staying on a $25 game with $4? - might as well gamble that opponent (FP) will "finally" give you credit for a big hand and fold. Freddies note's said loose and makes continuation bets - you dont have to get all of these calls right, just enough to make a profit in the long run.
 
robwhufc

robwhufc

Cardschat Elite
Freddy, you going to finish this post off? Did you call - what did he have?
 
Stick66

Stick66

Legend
F Paulsson said:
He had KK.

Before I got to the bottom, I put him on JT, 2 pair. But an overpair is also considerable. I see a lot of donks bet their top pair/overpair/2 pair hard OOP when a flush hits, hoping maybe their opponent will laydown a lower flush or something.

Here's a question for the group: If you were the BB here and had KK, would you have laid it down to Freddy's turn raise with a 3-flush on board? :hmmmm: (What if one King was Clubs?)
 
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