Pocket Queens, lots of post flop action

Genso Hikki

Genso Hikki

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Okay, I have another hand I'd like some feedback on the way I played. This is from a cash game last night - took notes as soon as the bickering about the hand was over, but as always when I post about live cash game hands, stack sizes are approximate. The reason I'm asking for feedback is a took a boat load of crap after the cards were shown over my play. I'd like to know if that criticism is justified... if it is, I can take it, I'm really posting these in the hopes of improving my game.

Approximate Stack Sizes
Seat 1 : Big blind $40
Seat 2: Small Blind #25
Seat 3: $50
Seat 4: $150
Seat 5 : $110
Seat 6: Hero $90
Seat 7: button $80

Blinds are $.50/$1.00

Dealt to hero: Qc, Qs

Small blind posts $.50
Big Blind posts $1.00
Seat 3 folds
Seat 4 calls $1.00
Seat 5 folds
Seat 6 Hero raised to $5.00
Seat 7 button calls
Small blind folds
Big blind folds
Seat 4 calls

Pot is $16.50

flop: 2h, 9h, 5c

Seat 4 bets $8.00
Hero raises to $24.00
Button calls $24.00
Seat 4 calls $16.00

pot size is $88.50

Turn: 7d

Seat 4 bets $90
Hero ???

A call of this pot-sized bet puts me all in. If I fold I will be left with about $61.00

What would you do?
 
Munchrs

Munchrs

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can you put him on 6h8h here. Does villian play suited connectors aggresively. Can you give us some more info on Villians style please?
 
Genso Hikki

Genso Hikki

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In general, the villian is a fairly solid poker player - post flop. He does have a bad habit of entering a raised pot pre-flop with rags, believing he has "two live cards." I also do NOT put him on a pair higher than mine because he did not raise pre-flop, only called my raise and that is a serious no-no in his view. I can easily put him on two hearts here though. He likes to push people off their hands to protect his draw.

My own personal read is that I'm either up against a flush draw, or a flopped set of 2s or 5s, since he often tries to limp with hands like those but will call a raise if he's forced.
 
Munchrs

Munchrs

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In general, the villian is a fairly solid poker player - post flop. He does have a bad habit of entering a raised pot pre-flop with rags, believing he has "two live cards." I also do NOT put him on a pair higher than mine because he did not raise pre-flop, only called my raise and that is a serious no-no in his view. I can easily put him on two hearts here though. He likes to push people off their hands to protect his draw.

My own personal read is that I'm either up against a flush draw, or a flopped set of 2s or 5s, since he often tries to limp with hands like those but will call a raise if he's forced.

If hes solid i think this is a very difficult fold. I think you need to re-raise again to see where your at. If he has a set/straight he will 3bet and if hes on flush will probably call/fold and you can check river if its a heart.
 
Genso Hikki

Genso Hikki

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Well, I can't re-raise. If I call his raise that puts me all in.

For what it's worth, I really don't see him on a straight here. There's no way he's calling my post flop bet with a gut shot.
 
pantin007

pantin007

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on the information you gave it seems like the most possible hand he has is a set
call in the name of pot odds even if u feel ur beat {ur getting over 2 to 1}


how did it end
 
Genso Hikki

Genso Hikki

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Well this is how it played out.

Seat 4 bets $90
Hero calls and is all-in
Button folds

River card is Qd

Showdown:
Hero shows three of a kind queens
Seat four shows two pair, 2s and 5s
Button, who folded on the turn also exposes his cards, showing he was on a heart flush draw
Okay - so I won the hand, but I sucked the guy out on the river with a third queen. His two pair had me all the way here.

The table was pretty spilt about my play here, but several people said calling this down with only an over pair was a totally boneheaded to do. The villian himself kept telling me I should know how tight he plays and know I was killed with two pair at the least or maybe a flopped set. I countered that I'd seen him play flush draws exactly the same way in the past. I also pointed out the pots odds here and he was still steaming.

So, I made a bad call, and it worked out for me. What I'm wondering was if my call was justified, or should I have just walked away and kept my $61 for the next hand.
 
pantin007

pantin007

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he should have lost the pot i mean u raise to 5*bb and he calls preflop with 2 5 ? what is he really expecting to happen
but i still think that it was the right call seeing u had odds
but really 2 5? what has poker become ;)
 
Genso Hikki

Genso Hikki

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Oh yeah, I most certainly wanted to shake him until his teeth rattled over that pre-flop call, but like I said earlier, he likes calling pre-flop raises with rags because he believes his cards are totally live and if he hits, no one will ever see it coming.
 
WVHillbilly

WVHillbilly

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When he's yelling at you about how lucky you were to suck out, remind him how lucky his donkey ass was to hit 2 pair on the flop (something like 120 to 1) and that all you needed was a Q, 9, or 7 to beat his dumb ass. Oh yeah and don't forget to smile as you stack his, now your, chips.

nh
 
Cheetah

Cheetah

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Oh yeah, I most certainly wanted to shake him until his teeth rattled over that pre-flop call, but like I said earlier, he likes calling pre-flop raises with rags because he believes his cards are totally live and if he hits, no one will ever see it coming.

He deserves to lose. His "logic" of live cards is ridiculous.

Your play was close based on odds and certainly not terrible.

Your pot odds are almost 2.5 to 1.

If he had a flush draw, he is about 4 to i dog so the call is very profitable.

If he had a set, then you only have 2 outs for 23 to 1 odds, so that is obvously not good.

If he has 2 pairs, like he did, you have 8 outs to improve which is about 5 to 1 odds against you. This is why small 2 pairs are not as good hand as some people believe. If the board pairs not with one of his cards, you have better 2 pairs. Your outs are the 2 Qs, 3 9s and 3 7s.

If he had say A9 for TPTK, he only has 5 outs which is 8 to 1 against him.

Your overall odds are a mixture of his possible holdings. Since you are ahead in some cases, and behind other case, this is a close situation and folding or calling is about the same EV. We cannot calculate it exactly because we have to guess the relative weight of these 4 likely holdings.

One thing is for sure: it is not a terrible play! And he deserves to lose for calling such big pf-raises with garbage. (Just don't tell him that so he continues to do it.:D )
 
Cheetah

Cheetah

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he should have lost the pot i mean u raise to 5*bb and he calls preflop with 2 5 ? what is he really expecting to happen
but i still think that it was the right call seeing u had odds
but really 2 5? what has poker become ;)

A few days ago, I had rock image on a table, hadn't played a hand in at least 20 minutes. Someone in EP raised all-in for 5bb, I re-raised from MP all-in for 13bb with KK, and a retard with about 16bb stack called from the SB with 23o! He flopped two pairs and I was out of the tourney.

I guess this fits with the 2-5 guy's idea of "live cards".:stupid:
 
A

alan1983

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I dont know why a set would just cold call on a drawy board with 2 other people in it, and then lead out allin.

So i really would put the set as his most likely holding, more like a middle pair, 88 or 66 that has picked up a draw.

52 shouldve raised the flop imo, his hand is evry vulnerable.
 
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