PLO: Easy river decision?

skoldpadda

skoldpadda

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Is there anyone who thinks we shouldn't call this every time? Is raising the flop or turn better?

pokerstars Game #12479181116: Omaha Pot Limit ($0.05/$0.10) - 2007/10/06 - 21:22:56 (ET)
Table 'Semele II' 9-max Seat #6 is the button
Seat 1: BabyHumvee ($25.45 in chips)
Seat 2: Angustus ($20.30 in chips)
Seat 4: kadabra123 ($5.55 in chips)
Seat 5: LOU 52 ($23 in chips)
Seat 6: DeusFace ($12.80 in chips)
Seat 8: ACS999 ($9.95 in chips)
Seat 9: 11nawox11 ($18.65 in chips)
ACS999: posts small blind $0.05
11nawox11: posts big blind $0.10
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to BabyHumvee :6d4: :qd4: :9d4: :as4:
BabyHumvee: calls $0.10
Angustus: calls $0.10
kadabra123: folds
LOU 52: calls $0.10
DeusFace: calls $0.10
ACS999: calls $0.05
11nawox11: checks
*** FLOP *** :9s4: :9h4: :7s4:
Eoing has returned
ACS999: checks
11nawox11: bets $0.30
BabyHumvee: calls $0.30
Angustus: folds
LOU 52: calls $0.30
DeusFace: folds
BLACKPOTTER joins the table at seat #3
ACS999: folds
*** TURN *** :9s4: :9h4: :7s4: :7d4:
11nawox11: bets $1.45
BabyHumvee: calls $1.45
LOU 52: folds
*** RIVER *** :9s4: :9h4: :7s4: :7d4: :3h4:
11nawox11: bets $2
BabyHumvee said, "quads?"
BabyHumvee:
 
Jack Daniels

Jack Daniels

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I'm by no stretch of the imagination a PLO player, but all you have here is trip nines. The very little I've played, I've seen crap show up all over the place. There is so much you lose to here, I'm inclined to say fold. He's been betting into you all along.

Like I said, if he had AA93 he's playing all the way and now winning. I don't know if I'm close and I'd probably call anyway, but I think folding is actually the better answer. Trips isn't often the winner in PLO, right? Ins't it usually higher?

EDIT: Also note that he's nearly double up on the buy-in, so he either knows what he's doing and/or majorly aggressive. Short of some donk read, I'd have to give him some credit here.
 
skoldpadda

skoldpadda

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you are correct, but given the 77 on board, less likely he has a 7. It's a tough decision, I think, given how much is in the pot. I think I chop here a lot. I'm getting over 3:1 on my call. Generally I think he'd pot it or bet more if he had a boat or quads.
 
Jack Daniels

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Generally I think he'd pot it or bet more if he had a boat or quads.
Now see this throws me off? Why would he pot it? Isn't $2.00 a more likely value bet? An overbet to make him appear weaker and getting you to call maybe? Guess I could see that. I wouldn't argue the call here. With 3:1 odds, you don't have to be right a lot to be profitable.
 
skoldpadda

skoldpadda

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Most players will pot it or bet more than $2 here on the river if you've called down their pot bets on the flop and turn. If he had not been potting it on every street, then I would view this more as a value bet. As it is played, it actually looks more like a blocking bet -- he didn't get his boat and he wants a cheaper showdown and wants to commit himself enough that he doesn't get bluffed out of the pot.

The key here, I think, is that I am making a big mistake not to call almost every time given the pot odds and the strength of my hand. Maybe in a tournament game the decision is more difficult, but I think in a cash game with these pot odds and the betting so far, I have to call even if I'm losing. There are just too many times I'm chopping or possibly winning.

If it's quads, it's a value bet. If not, it's a blocking bet. The hard part of course is deciding which it is. So, let the math decide for you.
 
skoldpadda

skoldpadda

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*** RIVER *** [9s 9h 7s 7d] [3h]
11nawox11: bets $2
BabyHumvee said, "quads?"
BabyHumvee: calls $2
*** SHOW DOWN ***
11nawox11: shows [4s 9c Td 4h] (three of a kind, Nines)
BabyHumvee: shows [6d Qd 9d As] (three of a kind, Nines - Ace kicker)
BabyHumvee collected $8 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $8.40 | Rake $0.40
Board [9s 9h 7s 7d 3h]
Seat 1: BabyHumvee showed [6d Qd 9d As] and won ($8) with three of a kind, Nines
Seat 2: Angustus folded on the Flop
Seat 4: kadabra123 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: LOU 52 folded on the Turn
Seat 6: DeusFace (button) folded on the Flop
Seat 8: ACS999 (small blind) folded on the Flop
Seat 9: 11nawox11 (big blind) showed [4s 9c Td 4h] and lost with three of a kind, Nines

Also keep in mind: limped pot, BB probably overly excited to hit flop at all.
 
TubaMark316

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The only thing I would have done differently was probably raised a little more on the turn and try to let him think you had 7-9 in your hand...

Then what the river comes and it's a rag...bet out strong...and if he's a donkey and thinks his 9 is the best...you got some money in your bankroll...:D

None the less, your play was great...you won the pot, didn't you? :)
 
A

alan1983

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Second 7 was a great card for us, makes it less likely that hes hit the fh. Fold is very bad on river i think. Id have raised flop though
 
skoldpadda

skoldpadda

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Given your sig, that's the most confused post I've read in some time. :p

For those who don't know, that expression is used ad nauseum in the high stakes section of said place which is why I made the joke. Also, I'm 99.9% sure rob is joking here, although I have no idea who skolpadda is.
 
J

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W/o being results oriented, I think calling was correct. There are exactly 5 hands that beat you (97,77,93,73,33), and 2 of them don't make sense for his betting on the previous rounds. Whether it may or not look like a value bet doesn't really apply, because several hands that you beat would probably bet that same amount, so I don't think we can really use that as a mean to decide if we should call or not.

Having A9 and getting better than 3 to 1 makes this IMO a call, a tougher decision would come if he actually does bet the pot on the river.
 
K_Kahne_Fan

K_Kahne_Fan

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W/o being results oriented, I think calling was correct. There are exactly 5 hands that beat you (97,77,93,73,33), and 2 of them don't make sense for his betting on the previous rounds. Whether it may or not look like a value bet doesn't really apply, because several hands that you beat would probably bet that same amount, so I don't think we can really use that as a mean to decide if we should call or not.

Having A9 and getting better than 3 to 1 makes this IMO a call, a tougher decision would come if he actually does bet the pot on the river.

Am I wrong in that only a 7-7 would win here? Since you have a 9, you have 9's full. 9-7 would give them 9's full as well making their 7 useless. 9-3 gives 9's over 3's wich would not win. 7-3 gives 7's full, which doesn't win. 3-3 gives 3's full wich also does not win. So, wouldn't 7-7 be the only hand to beat in this case?

Per Jack Daniels guess AA93 (1st reply) - Since it's Omaha and you can only play 2, they would only have 9's over 7's as well for a split pot. A's are useless since they have to use the 9 to make the top set, they have to then go to the 7's as well.

Unless he had 77, I think you had the nuts.
 
skoldpadda

skoldpadda

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K Kahne -- in Omaha you must use exactly 3 cards from the board and 2 from your hand. So as the results say, I have 3 9's... neither of us has a full house.

So if he had 73 or 77 or 97 he would win.
 
K_Kahne_Fan

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Ah, good catch, I was even thinking about that when I spoke of the AA theory. Sorry about that. In that case, trips would be a "easy" fold... not to say I would have folded, but I should've if I was in that situation :D
 
clamman1

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with the 2 7s out here ive prob would have just called all the way down epcailly aft5er the river when u were already invested 2 bucks
 
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