pl100, AK vs limp-small raise

ChuckTs

ChuckTs

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Villain is a 14/8/2 reg. I've been tag again, but also attack limpers pretty liberally with position and he might mistake this for one of those attacks.



pokerstars Pot-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (9 handed)

UTG ($97)
UTG+1 ($62.90)
MP1 ($221.95)
MP2 ($98.50)
MP3 ($152.35)
CO ($145.40)
Button ($231.90)
SB ($96.20)
Hero ($100.50)

Preflop: Hero is BB with A
spade.gif
, K
heart.gif
.
2 folds, MP1 calls $1, 5 folds, Hero raises to $3.5, MP1 raises to $8, Hero calls $4.50.

Flop: ($16.50) J
spade.gif
, 2
spade.gif
, 5
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(2 players)
Hero checks, MP1 bets $10, Hero folds.

Final Pot: $16.5

weaksauce? std?
 
zachvac

zachvac

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They have pot limit HE? Anyway I think this is a standard fold. The only thing we're worried about is them having AK and seeing our check as weakness and trying to steal it. But even then we're just splitting the pot. No use in continuing IMO, folding's the right move here.
 
c9h13no3

c9h13no3

Is drawing with AK
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Edit - Didn't see the limp re-raise. I don't mind the check/fold at all.
 
c9h13no3

c9h13no3

Is drawing with AK
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but what about pf?
His min-raise was pretty weak. I don't mind coming back over the top, especially given your table image. You're OOP with AK, hitting him back would at least put you in the driver's seat on the flop.
 
zachvac

zachvac

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pf I think you played it fine. The re-raise sometimes picks up the hand right there. You got raised, and you can call here. If you flop an A or K you can then assume you're good (unless he's an extremely tight player but from stats he isn't) and C/R the flop.
 
c9h13no3

c9h13no3

Is drawing with AK
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It wasn't a min-raise though.
So an extra 25%... $3.5-->$8 is pretty close to a min-raise. It looks kinda weak. And we're OOP with a hand that needs to hit the flop to proceed aggressively. I don't mind bumping him up to 20$, and folding to a re-raise/shove if you've really been a limp-punishing maniac. Also, this really looks like a steal attempt from us, since there's no one else in the hand, and he just limped. He's also got a big stack. Villain's are usually more likely to make moves when they're running good & up $.

In the end, the option to raise or just see a flop is Chuck's option, since he can read the Villain the best. If he has a tendancy to play big hands in a limp-raise manner, then I don't mind this line at all. But given the circumstances, if I had an inkling that Villain could be pulling this move with weaker hands, I would really consider kicking things up to 20$.
 
zachvac

zachvac

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So an extra 25%... $3.5-->$8 is pretty close to a min-raise.

From $1 though, so a minraise is to $6. But a smallish raise also may mean "I have AA and don't want him to fold".
 
c9h13no3

c9h13no3

Is drawing with AK
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From $1 though, so a minraise is to $6. But a smallish raise also may mean "I have AA and don't want him to fold".
So yeah, part of me is just playing the Devil's Advocate in this situation, and arguing for the non-standard line. But if any situation calls for a 4-bet preflop with AK, wouldn't it be this one? All the factors that suggest we 4-bet this are there:

1) A regular TAG opponent who will really consider that us 4-betting shows a ton of strength, and who can possibly fold.

2) We have an aggressive, limp-punishing table image.

3) Our opponent looks like he has picked up on our image, and is responding by limp/re-raising.

4) We're out of position, and it will be hard to bet into him on flops we don't hit, which happens less frequently than when we miss.

The only other thing missing would be deeper stacks for both us & opponent so that we could get away from a 4-bet pot if we need to. And a limp/re-raise looks a lot like a check/raise. To me, it looks like he wants to end the hand. If he thought we were holding something weak, wouldn't he just call, and try to get more out of us on the flop with a monster like AA?

Sure, check/folding saves us big money when we lose, but how much of villain's range is he limp-raising with? And how much of it would he fold if we came over the top? I think its a pretty significant portion. Again, this is all read dependent, but if I had good notes on a player that he has the ability to pull bluffs like this, or I had raised his limps on several occasions, I would consider that enough of a read to pop him here for some more $ preflop.
 
Last edited:
royalburrito24

royalburrito24

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In tournaments I am re-popping all in pre flop. But since this is a ring game, I am doing the exact opposite. Your opponents limp told me that he has a medium pair, maybe 99<. As soon as he makes that re raise, I automatically assume AA and maybe KK. You do not really see QQ and < make this type of play mainly because of the vulnerability. I have seen this play so many times in ring games it is almost automatic that they have one of the 2 big pairs.
I fold this pre flop and save my money for a better spot. Especially folding pre flop because of the fact that we are OOP.

Then again I suck at ring games, so my opinion is pretty close to invalid.
 
c9h13no3

c9h13no3

Is drawing with AK
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I fold this pre flop and save my money for a better spot.
This is awesome, now we have arguments for all 3 options :D

Folding is out of the question here IMO, since we have strong pot odds to see & possibly hit the flop (pay $5.5 more to win $12, 2:1), so even if villain's range is JJ+, we're still getting the right odds to see the flop.

Your opponents limp told me that he has a medium pair, maybe 99<.
So why is it out of the question that he could be testing Chuck with a medium pair?
 
WVHillbilly

WVHillbilly

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There's no way we can narrow his range down to KK+. If Chuck's been pushing limpers around I can see him making this play with AQ+/99+. Basically the villain is standing up to Chuck here saying I'm not afraid of you but that doesn't automatically give him KK+.
 
ChuckTs

ChuckTs

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Yeah agreed that folding pf is terribly weak - the rest of the table has been fairly tag (ie we have no maniacs) and I've been aggressive relative to my normal tag game - that hardly makes good enough conditions for a limp-raise with AA/KK.
 
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