Picking up more outs on the turn my down fall

C

ColdDeckCity

Rock Star
Joined
May 22, 2008
Total posts
122
1) Could i get some adive about this hand. I think rasing with a package hand is good?


2) I have a leak when picking up more outs on the turn, how can i combat this?

Thanks

Stacks:
MP1 with $81.30
MP2 with $49.75
MP3 with $47.75
CO with $71.70
BTN with $60.15
SB with $47.45
BB with $48.75
UTG with $10.00
UTG+1 with $38.90
hand.pl

Blinds: $0.00/$0.00
Site: Full Tilt Poker
Dealt to MP1:9♠ 8♠
Sklansky group 4
Preflop:
1 players fold.
Hero raises to $1.50
1 players fold.
MP3 calls [$1.50]
4 players folded.
Total folds this street: 6
Potsize: $3.75
Flop:
9♦ 3♥ 5♠
Hero bets [$3]
4 players fold.
MP3 calls [$3]
Potsize: $9.75
Turn:
4♠
Hero bets [$7]
MP3 raises to $20
Hero calls [$13]
Potsize: $49.75
River:
Q♦
Hero checks
MP3 bets [$23.25, and is all in]
Hero calls [$23.25]
Results:
MP3 shows :
6♦ 7♦
MP3 wins the pot ($93.25) with a straight, Seven high
 
Stu_Ungar

Stu_Ungar

Legend
Joined
May 14, 2008
Total posts
6,236
IMO

You are OK up untill the turn.. perhaps a bigger raise post flop because of the possibility of the 3 and 5 connecting

Then you put in a 3/4 pot sized bet which seems to be asking "can you beat top pair"

He then puts in an enormous pot and a bit bet which says "Yep!! and from the board he is representing a straight"

Now unless you feel that he is definately on a bluff you simply dont have the pot odds to continue on your draw because trips and 2 pair are no good. The only draw left is a flush.
 
Dwilius

Dwilius

CardsChat Regular
Joined
May 5, 2008
Total posts
7,583
Awards
34
There were implied odds to call the raise on the turn. Getting immed. 3 to 1 and if you correctly put him on straight he has to payoff the flush. What did you think you could beat (higher spade draw?)/why are you calling on the end. You're playing 89s to make the kind of hand he did, not top pair no kicker (2nd pr on river)
 
c9h13no3

c9h13no3

Is drawing with AK
Joined
Jan 2, 2007
Total posts
8,819
1) I don't like the first to act raise with suited connectors unless you have a really big advantage on these guys postflop. But from your previous thread, I'd say that's probably not the case.

2) Check the turn. What do you think villain is calling the flop with? This is what I'd put villain on:

-Top pair: TT, 9x (note, most hands that contain a 9 have you outkicked).
-Middle pair: 88, 77, 66, 65, 45
-Draws: 67, 46, A4

So on the turn, 67 made their draw, TT and most 9's are still ahead of you. And while hands like 66 & 77 just caught straight draws, their outs are dirty since you have a flush draw.

So yeah, you have the best draw, and the parts of villain's range that we're ahead of can't sustain a bet on the turn. So check. Free cards help us a ton because we have the best draw.

3) You have to fold this river. Wtf do you beat? Seriously, this is total spew.
 
Announced

Announced

Guest
Joined
Mar 22, 2005
Total posts
52
If you are set on getting your stack in on this hand, it has to be on the turn. I would not advise doing that, but judging by your river call, it seems like that was your intention. I don't really mind your bet on the turn, but I'm more inclined to check in this spot. Your river call was absolutely atrocious.

Don't post results.
 
BelgoSuisse

BelgoSuisse

Legend
Joined
Nov 26, 2007
Total posts
9,218
Pre-flop and flop is fine imo.

Ideally, check-call the turn, then check-fold the river.

If you insist on betting the turn, fold to the reraise, because OOP you may not have the implied odds to justify a call. If a spade hits on the river, villain may not call a shove, and will most likely check behind you if you check the river.

Finally, when you call the turn reraise and don't hit the flush, check-fold the river. All you beat is a bluff at this point and you would need a monster read to put villain on a bluff here.
 
OzExorcist

OzExorcist

Broomcorn's uncle
Joined
Aug 6, 2007
Total posts
8,583
Awards
1
Reads on your opponent are very important here:

- What kind of hands are they likely to have called you with pre-flop? Would they be flat calling you medium pairs, would they play AQ like this, are connectors a regular part of their range?

- What kind of hands do they need to pay you off on the river if you hit? If the third spade does come, will they pay you off with JJ?

- Since we're talking about package hands I assume you've been reading your Vorhaus, so, is this player risk-averse or risk-affined?

You're definitely not getting the right pot odds on the turn ($13 is 35% of the $37 pot, and you're only 19% to make your flush) so you're relying on implied odds to justify a call. If the villain will pay you off with a hand like JJ every time, then maybe the call was OK. If they're unlikely to pay you off, however, then you're not getting the right odds on the turn, either real or implied.

You really need a good read on the villain to assess what the right move is there, and in the absence of such a read you should probably take the more conservative line.
 
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