Overbet Shove on the river

C

ciriciric

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pokerrr2 App (basically runs as a live game)
0.25$/0.5$ (optional UTG straddle to 1$) 150$ CAP
8 handed

Villain solid reg opens from UTG to 2$ (eff. 129$)
BTN flats
Hero from SB AcQs 3Bets to 10.9$
Villain defends, BTN folds
HU to the flop

flop (24.30$)
5s 4c 3s
It goes check-check

turn (24.30$)
5s 4c 3s 2c
Hero checks
Villain bets 16$

river (56.30$)
5s 4c 3s 2c Kd
Hero checks
Villain overbets shove for 102$

After not betting flop and turn, do we have to call down every bet on the river?
 
Deadrabbit

Deadrabbit

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Geez don't tell me

pokerrr2 app (basically runs as a live game)
0.25$/0.5$ (optional UTG straddle to 1$) 150$ CAP
8 handed

Villain solid reg opens from UTG to 2$ (eff. 129$)
BTN flats
Hero from SB AcQs 3Bets to 10.9$
Villain defends, BTN folds
HU to the flop

flop (24.30$)
5s 4c 3s
It goes check-check

turn (24.30$)
5s 4c 3s 2c
Hero checks
Villain bets 16$

river (56.30$)
5s 4c 3s 2c Kd
Hero checks
Villain overbets shove for 102$

After not betting flop and turn, do we have to call down every bet on the river?

Okay you left off some important information here and I'm not understanding is this a brick and mortar game or online? You said an app that plays like live I don't understand...
Some important information that you left out is effective stack sizes number one number two you didn't tell us anything about big blind obviously he folded but this is still extremely relevant to your action which was raised and this is where I believe in my humble opinion (nothing humble about me) but my experience of well over a million hands and 20 years experience that I didn't like your raise from the spot. Ace Queen can get you an extremely big trouble. And a river shove your thinking about making a hero call here???
And my opinion again that's absolute nonsense and I really don't believe you should have been in the hand to begin with it would have been perfectly fine to fold the ace Queen at this stake level especially. People at this level tend to seriously overplay Ace Queen. Ace Queen is not a premium hand and furthermore if you put it into a solver if you're playing a good solid tight aggressive game Ace Queen is a fold there pre-flop.
Remember truly successful players it's not about their incredible bluffs or their miraculous hero calls it's about their self-control and discipline to fold monster hands and there's nothing monster about an ace queen off suit.
Too much TV people always thinking that Ace queen versus pocket 9s is a coin flip it's not a coin flip it's actually closer to 55 45 than it is to 50/50 that's a 10% difference have an idea of what 10% differences when you're flipping coins in my living room tell you what let's try every time we flip a coin I make $0.60 when I win and 50 cent when you win you could retire with that you could retire with that...
wsop TV poker has made an millions of horrible poker players it's great that you're here at card chat so you're not one of them!
Cheers
Ps
I hope I'm not coming off too snide or arrogant for disrespected I certainly don't mean to talk down to you at all...many times I sound like that and I apologize if I am. my wife always tells me I need to work on my people skills.. I'm working on it I promise you ��
And by the way that link will give you 30 days free to try out with no credit card if you end up liking it let me know and I'll help you decide which one to choose but drivehud absolutely awesome
:jd4:amming the river :eek::eek::eek: :confused::confused::confused:

Old pool hall junkie used to always tell me when in doubt.... Play it safe.
RIP Chuck safely
 
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C

ciriciric

Enthusiast
Joined
Sep 4, 2020
Total posts
38
Okay you left off some important information here and I'm not understanding is this a brick and mortar game or online? You said an app that plays like live I don't understand...
Some important information that you left out is effective stack sizes number one number two you didn't tell us anything about big blind obviously he folded but this is still extremely relevant to your action which was raised and this is where I believe in my humble opinion (nothing humble about me) but my experience of well over a million hands and 20 years experience that I didn't like your raise from the spot. Ace Queen can get you an extremely big trouble. And a river shove your thinking about making a hero call here???
And my opinion again that's absolute nonsense and I really don't believe you should have been in the hand to begin with it would have been perfectly fine to fold the ace Queen at this stake level especially. People at this level tend to seriously overplay Ace Queen. Ace Queen is not a premium hand and furthermore if you put it into a solver if you're playing a good solid tight aggressive game Ace Queen is a fold there pre-flop.
Remember truly successful players it's not about their incredible bluffs or their miraculous hero calls it's about their self-control and discipline to fold monster hands and there's nothing monster about an ace queen off suit.
Too much TV people always thinking that Ace queen versus pocket 9s is a coin flip it's not a coin flip it's actually closer to 55 45 than it is to 50/50 that's a 10% difference have an idea of what 10% differences when you're flipping coins in my living room tell you what let's try every time we flip a coin I make $0.60 when I win and 50 cent when you win you could retire with that you could retire with that...
WSOP TV poker has made an millions of horrible poker players it's great that you're here at card chat so you're not one of them!
Cheers
Ps
I hope I'm not coming off too snide or arrogant for disrespected I certainly don't mean to talk down to you at all...many times I sound like that and I apologize if I am. my wife always tells me I need to work on my people skills.. I'm working on it I promise you ��
And by the way that link will give you 30 days free to try out with no credit card if you end up liking it let me know and I'll help you decide which one to choose but drivehud absolutely awesome I became an affiliate I liked it so much!
:jd4:amming the river :eek::eek::eek: :confused::confused::confused:

Old pool hall junkie used to always tell me when in doubt.... Play it safe.
RIP Chuck safely


Of course I am not offended, I am posting here to get different opinions.
It's a game that plays on app but it not runs as online game with 2.5BB open and so on... People normal open size is 4,5,6BB and there are lot of weird lines and a lot of recreational players.
But you haven't read my post carefully. I have stated everything. 129$ is the effective stack, I guess I forgot to write that Hero covers. Further more the initial pf raiser has defended my 3Bet and the guy in between folded like I stated in my post.

If I understood you well in a single raise pot and a caller in between, you would fold AQo from the SB or you are just calling?
 
G

gustav197poker

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The V aperture is a bit small. Let's keep in mind that doing the conversion represents only 2 straddles. That accounts for a wider range that matches your description, that of a possibly competent V.
When faced with that UTG range, you have a bit of a thin hand when there is one player left on the calling BTN. In this case it is best to collect the information of the player in position (BU).
Since we are blocking half of the AQs combos, in this case we could 3-bet when we think that BTN does not pose a threat to us.
Calling is a bit marginal, because we are somehow isolating ourselves with hands that play with better implied odds in postflop.
When UTG calls preflop, many premium hands are removed from their range, leaving those that could interfere with BTN's wide range. For example: the medium and low suited connectors.
As expected, the player in BTN folds most of the time in these places and we are in a duel against UTG.
The flop comes down coordinated. The check line seems a bit passive to me. We must consider that the times we do not have an ace, we want to bet on protection. Think of the hands as QQ; KK. They want to increase fold equity now and not give too much headroom to postflop play.
On the turn V makes a 2/3 pot bet. With this he is balancing the times that he represent strong values. But we are at the top of our range. And a competent V will know. Because there is a high probability that we have an ace, that we have played it slow on the flop/turn hoping to induce polarized bets.
Here the characteristic of the villain is very important. If you think he is a good player he will make a bigger bet to try to represent bluffs that have some equity (flush draws) and that you can call wider on the river when they fail.
But you have the Ac, which drastically reduces your villain's bluff range and we conclude that UTG might still have some bluffs, but they won't have a worse hand than yours among their values.
Finally on the river the overbet ends up revealing the information that we assume, the V has of you. Obviously he bets against an ace, but the best way to bet against an ace is to have the absolute nuts. Therefore I would take a deep breath and fold in this place.
Greetings.
 
F

fundiver199

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The main thing about this spot is, how often can we have a 6 after 3-betting pre and checking flop and turn? And how often can Villain have a 6 after opening UTG, calling a 3-bet and not betting the flop when checked to? As a "solid reg"? Would a 6 in either players hand not nearly always have taken a different line? There are two busted flushdraws, so unless you have a read, that this guy is never bluffing or overplaying AX, I probably close my eyes and call.

With that being said if your entire range for getting to the river this way is AX, and you want to defend correctly, you need to fold most of the time facing a 2X overbet. And the best AX to call with are those with no spade or club. And since you have both, this particular combo would then be one to fold in a GTO framework.
 
terryk

terryk

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He missed his flush-draw and is trying to "buy" the pot,,, easy call. :cool:
 
daddybrooks

daddybrooks

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If the guy is as you say a solid regular, I wouldn't put him raising A,6 or 6,7 from utg. Possible 6's, but you 3 bet enough and with button behind him still to act, from a solid player perspective that's a pretty easy fold with as little as he's put in.

All in all, I would have tossed out a Cbet on that flop to see where he's at. If he has just A,x I don't know that he calls waiting on that 2. Once that turn came however, you both have that straight. You check and he starts value betting hoping you have K's or something. Once you just flat call him, he thinks he's got you nailed with just high pockets. His 2x pot shove is well within that range, especially if he puts you on K's. I would call expecting a split.
 
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