Not really a hand analysis but overall hands

WVHillbilly

WVHillbilly

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Feel free to move if this is the wrong forum. Maybe the learning poker forum???

Going over some on my position stats in Poker Tracker today and noticed that I am losing $$ in 3 positions. The BB (expected), the SB (expected), and the button (not expected!). It's only .03 BB/100 over 20,000 hands but shouldn't we expect to make more $$ with position overall? Am I stealing too much (ATS = 24%) or just taking too many hands to SD from the button. My overall stats are 16/11/3 and my stats from the button are 20/12/2.5. I don't appear to go to SD there more than my average (25%). Anyone have any suggestions?

Maybe it's this stat Fold Steal to BB Reraise. From the cutoff that stat is 62.5% but from the button it's on 22%. Maybe I'm calling too many 3bets from the button. Thoughts?
 
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D

Dr_Dick

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Check it against your stats 1 off the button, you are making money in that position correct?
 
WVHillbilly

WVHillbilly

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Yes, the cutoff is my most profitable position.
 
vanquish

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that's very strange afaik, i have the button as my highest winning position
 
WVHillbilly

WVHillbilly

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that's very strange afaik, i have the button as my highest winning position

As I would expect it should be. Mind posting you these stats from the button?

ATS
WTSD
Fold Steal BRR

Knowing your VPIP/PFR/AF might be a good baseline as well.

Thanks.
 
vanquish

vanquish

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As I would expect it should be. Mind posting you these stats from the button?

ATS
WTSD
Fold Steal BRR

Knowing your VPIP/PFR/AF might be a good baseline as well.

Thanks.

for full ring obv:

22/16/2.6 over 35k hands

ATS = 34%
WTSD = 29%

idk what the last stat is?
 
WVHillbilly

WVHillbilly

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for full ring obv:

22/16/2.6 over 35k hands

ATS = 34%
WTSD = 29%

idk what the last stat is?

The last stat may only be in PT3 don't know if you're using that or not. If so you can get it by clicking on the wrench next to the position statistics and selecting it.

Thanks Vanquish.
 
vanquish

vanquish

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The last stat may only be in PT3 don't know if you're using that or not. If so you can get it by clicking on the wrench next to the position statistics and selecting it.

Thanks Vanquish.

oh no, i am using PT2.
feel free to ask me other stuff about this topic or PM me and we can talk on AIM
 
zachvac

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Yikes, this is bad. Basically if you're losing money from the button you'd have made more from folding every button. Obviously not good. Even the best lose some money from the SB and BB, but every person who's stats I've seen have the button as the most profitable, as can be expected. I'll look at my stats for these as well.
 
zachvac

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As I would expect it should be. Mind posting you these stats from the button?

ATS
WTSD
Fold Steal BRR

Knowing your VPIP/PFR/AF might be a good baseline as well.

Thanks.

ok I'm using PT2, can't find my attempt to steal on the button. Total ATS is 43.25%, but probably higher for just the button.

WTSD on button = 31.23%

I've been playing 15/12/2 over a little under 12k hands for these.
 
WVHillbilly

WVHillbilly

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I understand it's really bad. I just need to figure out what I'm doing wrong. I think I may be calling 3bets (re-steals) and then folding UI after the flop. I'd really like to hear from someone using PT3. This could make a BIG difference in my overall win rate. I'm currently winning 5.5 BB/100 and 2 BB/100 from the cutoff so if I can get that or more from the button, well I know you can do the math.
 
zachvac

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I understand it's really bad. I just need to figure out what I'm doing wrong. I think I may be calling 3bets (re-steals) and then folding UI after the flop. I'd really like to hear from someone using PT3. This could make a BIG difference in my overall win rate. I'm currently winning 5.5 BB/100 and 2 BB/100 from the cutoff so if I can get that or more from the button, well I know you can do the math.

I'm actually going to put my database into PT3. I was planning on doing this just to look at some of the regs and how often they 3-bet, how they react to them, etc. I'll take a look at those stats when I do that.

fwiw if I raise to steal from the button I'm folding the heavy majority of hands where I get 3-bet. I'll fold up to AJs on the button and depending on player I'd consider folding AQ. I'm still having trouble with AK to 3-bets because I really don't want to 4-bet it, folding's way too weak (because his range is wider than AA/KK) but just calling gives me no information and paying AA off when I hit the K or AA when I hit either is bad (and of course the TT-QQ hands push me out when there's not an over). But unless it's someone you have history with, I'd just be giving 3-bets credit for a monster. Unless you've got AA-JJ/AK I'm pretty much just dumping it preflop unless they do a stupid min 3-bet in which case I'll call with odds to setmine with any pocket pair.
 
WVHillbilly

WVHillbilly

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Looking at my stats for the cutoff and button I see that I fold to the blind resteal more than twice as often from the cutoff as I do from the button. I'd really be interested to see your stats here Zach when you get your db into PT3.

Must be a psychological thing where I give more credit if I'm stealing from the CO and no credit when I'm on the button because I think they're just playing back at the obvious button steal. I think I need to play a few sessions where I fold to any blind 3bet from the button unless I have AQ+.
 
zachvac

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Apparently I have a lot of hands. Got 80k imported and it's like 20% of the way done. Estimated time left: 2 hours. Anyone know if there's a way to just copy the database instead of re-importing all the hands into PT3?
 
WVHillbilly

WVHillbilly

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No way. Too many new stats recorded. It needs the full HHs to get everything.
 
zachvac

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As I would expect it should be. Mind posting you these stats from the button?

ATS
WTSD
Fold Steal BRR

Knowing your VPIP/PFR/AF might be a good baseline as well.

Thanks.

ATS: 56.89%
WTSD: 31.47%
Fold Steal BRR: 70.59%
 
WVHillbilly

WVHillbilly

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ATS: 56.89%
WTSD: 31.47%
Fold Steal BRR: 70.59%

Thanks a lot. I'm sure I'm calling WAY too many 3bets from the blinds when I'm on the button and then folding when I don't improve. It's a definite leak and I wish I had noticed it sooner.
 
SavagePenguin

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I decided to check my position stats. (Didn't see a way to graph it in PT3, so I imported my data back into PT2.)

Keep in mind that I had virtually no FR expereince up until a short while ago, so 4, 5, and 6 don't mean much. (Don't see how I lost so much in 4 in such a short time. Yipe!)

My SB stats surprise me. And the I'd also expect the 2 & 3 stats to be switched.
position.jpg

I have a little over 40k hands recorded BTW.
 
WVHillbilly

WVHillbilly

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Would you mind posting the stats discussed above from PT3?
 
SavagePenguin

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Would you mind posting the stats discussed above from PT3?

I'm at work now and only have PT2 here. Assuming I can find the Fold Steal BRR, I'll post it tonight. (I'm not fluent in Poker Tracker stats)

24.84% Att. to steal blinds (23.09% at 6 max $25 NL, which I've played almost exclusively since January)
24.75% Went to showdown

And in comparison, my VP$IP is 24.48%, but 20.94% at the 6-max $25 NL.
So I guess I'm not a big stealer.

And it probably doesn't matter, my my Won $ at SD is 49.96%.


Edit: Wait... I found PT3. I guess I did install it here. I need to update the version and import from my backup.
I also need to get some work done. But I should have that stat up in a bit.

Re-edit: It's not importing. It'll have to wait until tonight.
 
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vanquish

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I decided to check my position stats. (Didn't see a way to graph it in PT3, so I imported my data back into PT2.)

Keep in mind that I had virtually no FR expereince up until a short while ago, so 4, 5, and 6 don't mean much. (Don't see how I lost so much in 4 in such a short time. Yipe!)

My SB stats surprise me. And the I'd also expect the 2 & 3 stats to be switched.
position.jpg

I have a little over 40k hands recorded BTW.

interesting that you are up from SB
 
WVHillbilly

WVHillbilly

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It's easy to find these stats in PT3. Just go to the positions tab and select the tool icon on the right side of the stats. From there just double-click on the stats you want to add to the positions report and click apply.

What's your win rate overall and I agree with Vanquish very odd that you've won more from the small blind than any other position except the button.
 
vanquish

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seeing as how SB is the worst position in the game, maybe its because you've played some heads-up ring? (although i guess it should be recorded as button stats and not SB...)
 
SavagePenguin

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I've never played a HU ring game.
I win about 2/3 of my HU tournament sessions though.
Up until I played a CC ring game in January, I only had 1 hand in the #4 seat. And my next FR was the night of ChuckT's 10k post. But since then I've been playing them some.

I play every night, but I don't do long sessions.

I cropped out my money totals (not that you can't do math and see where I'm at), but here are the stats as I see them in PT2:

may2008stats.jpg


may2008stats2.jpg


As far as my SB stats being so huge... I don't know.
I don't steal a lot, and make a lot of raises to $.75 into unraised pots from the SB with Face/rag type hands, and usually take them down without a fight. I don't think PokerTracker calls this a steal attempt. I guess they add up?
ALSO, at $.10/$.25 the SB is quite a bit cheaper (percentage-wise) than at the $.25/$.50 and $.50/$1 games.

My sample size is nothing compared to other people's sample sizes though. I'm not sure how many hands are required to get a good sampling.
 
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