nl$100, QQ OTB against an unknown.

tenbob

tenbob

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Villian is unknown to me ive been on the table for one orbit and he hasnt really stepped out of line. What on earth plays like this ? Is there any point value betting this river ???

pokerstars Game #14727488562: Hold'em No Limit ($0.50/$1.00) - 2008/01/21 - 18:44:42 (ET)
Table 'Milet II' 9-max Seat #9 is the button
Seat 1: PatBlues ($89 in chips)
Seat 2: Pokito_81 ($117.40 in chips)
Seat 3: Sharkoon83 ($85.60 in chips)
Seat 4: McFiddish ($99.50 in chips)
Seat 5: vgreen22 ($112.90 in chips)
Seat 7: Odilla ($103.15 in chips)
Seat 8: elvesslayer ($113 in chips)
Seat 9: tenbob ($100 in chips)
PatBlues: posts small blind $0.50
Pokito_81: posts big blind $1
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to tenbob [Qh Qc]
Sharkoon83: folds
McFiddish: folds
vgreen22: folds
Odilla: folds
elvesslayer: raises $3 to $4
jtsjts4 joins the table at seat #6
tenbob: raises $7 to $11
PatBlues: calls $10.50
Pokito_81: folds
elvesslayer: folds
*** FLOP *** [3d 8c 6s]
PatBlues: checks
tenbob: bets $14
PatBlues: raises $14 to $28
tenbob: calls $14
*** TURN *** [3d 8c 6s] [2h]
PatBlues: checks
tenbob: checks
*** RIVER *** [3d 8c 6s 2h] [7s]
PatBlues: checks
tenbob is using up his time bank totally confused............
 
ChuckTs

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Postflop I often see bluffs/semibluffs or smaller pocket pairs, but the pf action is what has me really lost here. Especially OOP.

I dunno, I can't see a hand we're behind to here, I bet-fold. Odd one though...
 
jaketrevvor

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The trouble with this is it's a very read dependment situation against an unknown so I guess this could be an argument for checking (especially as you get to see his cards woot)

Looks to me like a poorly played 77, possibly 99. It's a toss up for me between bet-folding and wimpy checking, but the only point to chekcing would be if most of his range was made up of missed draws but I can't really see any of these doing this pf. Then again this guy is clearly mental :). Bet-fold or bet-call given committedness are the most appropriate lines here depending on how you feel :)
 
Tygran

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Wow that's weird...

I have no idea what plays that way. It could be an odd sort of slowplay in that he's hoping you'll interpret his reraise then check as a bluff that didn't work and will bet again when he is actually quite strong. Or it could just be a rather weak attempt at bluffing you off.

If the guy is just rather clueless it could be lots of things though.. most likely a mid to low pp (55/77/99/TT).. I don't think a set checks the river but who knows.

I expect we are ahead here but i'm not extremely confident about it. I would probably just check behind and the main reasons being 1) we don't really know wtf he has, we could be behind and 2) I want to be sure I see what he has so I'll have a better idea of what to do with him in the future. Might we miss out on a value bet? Sure we might...but we have to fold if we bet the river and he reraises big don't we? Which I wouldn't be totally surprised to see him do on a bluff OR on a monster. I want to see his hand even if I might miss a value bet.

Personally I believe missing an occasional value bet for solid information on a player pays off larger in the long run.

/Edit: I think I could also see an AK/AQ of clubs doing this too
 
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WVHillbilly

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Overvalued AK?? I check behind to see his hand. Don't want him folding or reraising if we bet here. I've got to know.
 
Tygran

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If AK is going crazy he'll mostly do it pf. Obv not always tho I gess...

While I generally agree with this it happens often enough to warrant a mention pf. Particularly if has a flush draw to go with the overs.
 
OzExorcist

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It looks to me like a badly played bluff / information bet. He's figured you for a c-bet on the flop, so he's raised to see how serious you are. You've called, telling him you are indeed serious, and he's just shut down.

If that's the case it's almost always safe to bet here, though I don't think you get called too often.
 
Emperor IX

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If that's the case it's almost always safe to bet here, though I don't think you get called too often.

this is why I like checking. It's good to know what he played like this...
 
ChuckTs

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I'm not sure the value of knowing what he played here is really that important. TB has played thousands of hands, probably in the tens of thousands at 100nl and hasn't run into him yet, so why should he believe he would run into him again (and use that info to his advantage)?

I still bet this because I think there are plenty of smaller pairs that will pay us off. We haven't exactly screamed strength as of yet this hand.
 
Emperor IX

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I'm not sure the value of knowing what he played here is really that important. TB has played thousands of hands, probably in the tens of thousands at 100nl and hasn't run into him yet, so why should he believe he would run into him again (and use that info to his advantage)?

I still bet this because I think there are plenty of smaller pairs that will pay us off. We haven't exactly screamed strength as of yet this hand.

I'm just curious, haha. Betting is best for reasons stated above, but curiosity would probably get the better of me.
 
WVHillbilly

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I agree that betting here is +EV as we'll likely get called with a few smaller pairs, but I want to see his cards (call it a leak if you like).
 
OzExorcist

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this is why I like checking. It's good to know what he played like this...

To my mind, if we bet and he folds then we won't learn a lot more by actually seeing the cards. It'll be obvious: he had air.

It might be interesting if we saw a showdown and he showed something like AK, but one hand is hardly enough to be saying "this guy will take one stab at a pot with AK then shut down every time".

So I pretty much agree with Chuck here: ensuring we see his cards isn't as important as getting in a potential value bet.
 
tenbob

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I can understand the bet/fold option, I really wanted to reach showdown though. I couldnt see what he'll call with here that he dosnt bet out himself. Anyway he had A10.
 
Four Dogs

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I can understand the bet/fold option, I really wanted to reach showdown though. I couldnt see what he'll call with here that he dosnt bet out himself. Anyway he had A10.
AT huh?
Very odd indeed. I guess sometimes there's just no figurin'.:dontknow:
 
NineLions

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I can understand the bet/fold option, I really wanted to reach showdown though. I couldnt see what he'll call with here that he dosnt bet out himself. Anyway he had A10.

Not uncommon at $10NL, but I wouldn't have expected it at $100. I think they CR the flop to see if you're c-betting a missed flop and then check/fold; that's all I can guess.

I think I had the same thing last session, but he folded to my river bet so I don't know for sure, but preflop/flop/turn had the same line. Mind you, my opponent was 73/0 or something like that.
 
Four Dogs

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Not uncommon at $10NL, but I wouldn't have expected it at $100. I think they CR the flop to see if you're c-betting a missed flop and then check/fold; that's all I can guess.

I think I had the same thing last session, but he folded to my river bet so I don't know for sure, but preflop/flop/turn had the same line. Mind you, my opponent was 73/0 or something like that.

I think you have it exactly NL. Not that it's a great play, but it's the only thing that makes any kind of sense.
 
B

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IDK why you checked the turn. And to me it looks like he has 99/1010/JJ and made a raise on the flop to see if you had AK/AQ or if you had an overpair. Since you didn't fold he figured you have an overpair and that's why he slowed down on the turn and river. He doesn't have a set so you should bet on the river and hope to get called by 99 1010 or JJ.
 
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