NL $100, KK in a 4 bet pot.

tenbob

tenbob

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Monsters under the bed or good pot control ? Villian is playing LAG and winning on 33/23/4 over 120 or so hands. Oh and yes I was calling if he bet the river :)

Stacks:
- Mister_Figo with $14.15 - Pulwa with $106.25 - GemGranny with $66.75 - taita777 with $70.60 - Ventrue2 with $25.25 - tenbob with $99.00 - Pantani4 with $102.70 - imprezza911 with $31.55



index.pl

Blinds: $0.50/$1.00
Site: Pokerstars
- Dealt to tenbob:
:kd4:
:kc4:
- Sklansky group 1
Preflop:
- 1 players fold.
- imprezza911 raises $2 to $3
- 1 players fold.
- pulwa raises $6 to $9
- 3 players fold.
- tenbob raises $12 to $21
- 1 players fold.
- pulwa calls [$12]
- Total folds this street: 6
- Potsize: $45.5
Flop:
:qd4:
:9c4: :5d4:
- tenbob bets [$25]
- pulwa calls [$25]
- Potsize: $95.5
Turn:
:2s4:

- tenbob: checks
- Pulwa: checks
- Potsize: $95.5
River:
:7d4:

- tenbob: checks
- Pulwa: checks
 
J

jeffred1111

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Good, albeit weakish, since if his stats indicate a lot of raising preflop and if we say that he raises his up 25 and some % of his low 10% to complete his 22%, the chances of him having precisely QQ, 99 or AA are smaller than the chances of him having AK or the like (more combos and his range is not that small). What is his reraising range ? Does it include air some % of the time ?

On the flop, if we give him a range of 88+, AQo+, AJs+, KQs+ and some random 93dd crap, we are actually a favourite and I can picture him calling you with at least TT+, some combos of AK (AdKx) with the intention of seeing how you act on the turn and maybe take the pot away from you. AA and QQ valueshove this after you bet IMHO, so we can take them out or discount them heavily on the turn. Turn changes nothing and our equity goes up a lot against unpaired FD wich make a huge part of his drawing range, but a small part of his overall range: pot is already big, let's invite some bluffing from this lag (and I probably c/shove).

As played, only option is to c/call rive really since he has the flush a small enough % of the time for us to show a profit (since only AdJd and AdTd can possibly be in his reraising preflop range, apart from random SCs). I might valuebet this against some more passive players, since AQ is probably calling us, as is KQ or even TT-JJ.
 
blankoblanco

blankoblanco

plays poker on hard mode
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Oh and yes I was calling if he bet the river :)

then value bet the river yourself. there is almost nothing he's calling flop with that he's going to turn into a bluff on a 3rd diamond. he either had some kind of made hand or the diamond draw. the only huge stretch you can make is hoping he somehow is in the hand with exactly JT and will bluff the diamond river when you check, but didn't stab on the turn. check/calling accomplishes very little

and i'd raise more preflop. you're oop, reverse implied odds, etc.
 
skoldpadda

skoldpadda

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Why not move in on the blank turn? You have half your chips in and aren't folding if he bets the turn, are you?
 
vanquish

vanquish

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Why not move in on the blank turn? You have half your chips in and aren't folding if he bets the turn, are you?

you wouldnt be getting as much value compared to checking turn and value betting river because a shove on turn folds out most of his range that would actually pay us

pumpfaking turn if villain bets may be a good idea with a LAG as well
 
J

jeffred1111

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Combu, you don't think a LAG will at least try to rep the flush after checking behind ? Looking at stack sizes, it's actually not all that likely. Value bet camp for me too (and I did say I would bet this against some opponents, but I just remembered this is NL100 and good LAGs recognize when you are pot comitted and won't bluff into stupid spots).
 
ChuckTs

ChuckTs

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I pretty much agree with what combu said. Raise more pf to make up for your positional deficit, and postflop I like except I'm probably bet-calling riv. I don't think a lag villain will play a FD this passively in a pot this big.
 
blankoblanco

blankoblanco

plays poker on hard mode
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Combu, you don't think a LAG will at least try to rep the flush after checking behind ?

i don't think he'll feel like he has to rep the flush, because he usually has some sort of hand that he wants to showdown. i agree with chuck that if he had a FD, he'd play it faster. any flush draw that he'd see this flop with in a 4bet pot, he's probably shoving flop with.

but he did call the flop, so therefore he generally has some kind of actual made hand, JJ-TT being most likely. once he checks behind the turn, we know he wasnt floating us with nothing, cause that would have been his big chance to stab at it. so again that reinforces the idea that he's got a middling pair type hand looking for a cheap showdown. when we check again on the river, our hand looks like an AK that gave up. at that point he has no reason to turn his middle pair into a bluff or represent anything, on the offchance that we do have something this strong. bet and let him think of a reason to call you (like putting you on an AK that didn't give up)
 
zachvac

zachvac

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If he wasn't LAG I'd say he played this just like a flush draw, with possibly overs as well (right up to checking the river). Because he is LAG, you can rule out high diamonds, he'd definitely push the flop with that. Although his stats show his range PF is usually very wide, he did raise a raise and then call you're re-raise, so you kind of have to put him on some kind of hand. You can rule out a set because he would have played back on the flop with the flush draw out there. I'm very curious as to what he had but I agree that most likely he had TT or JJ.
 
tenbob

tenbob

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Checked down, villian had QQ for a strange top set.
 
zachvac

zachvac

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FYP

holy crap, he's awful

That is an understatement. Top set and he checks down the turn and river? I mean I'm sure his logic was "I'll slowplay this monster by checking behind on the turn" and then when the 3rd diamond came he was scared of the flush. Never mind that it was 3-bet preflop and never mind that if tenbob had a high flush he bets that river. Guess it was good pot control, just thank him for saving you all that money.
 
vanquish

vanquish

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That is an understatement. Top set and he checks down the turn and river? I mean I'm sure his logic was "I'll slowplay this monster by checking behind on the turn" and then when the 3rd diamond came he was scared of the flush. Never mind that it was 3-bet preflop and never mind that if tenbob had a high flush he bets that river. Guess it was good pot control, just thank him for saving you all that money.

dood obv he was pot controlling river so TB would snapshove 6th street.
k?
 
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