nl$100 FR. Big draw against serious action.

tenbob

tenbob

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Both vilians are nitty multitablers, what do you do on a high speed table with no time bank left ? Pre-flop was a little marginal but thats what drink does :)

pokerstars Game #13044815095: Hold'em No Limit ($0.50/$1.00) - 2007/11/04 - 19:30:18 (ET)
Table 'Retsina' 9-max Seat #4 is the button
Seat 1: krisjdk ($104.30 in chips)
Seat 2: 1348rykkinn ($94.60 in chips)
Seat 3: bantje22 ($44.05 in chips)
Seat 4: squidrigs ($65.25 in chips)
Seat 5: thevanquish ($159.15 in chips)
Seat 6: plokio ($62.55 in chips)
Seat 7: jaymesbond ($113.15 in chips)
Seat 8: tenbob ($161.65 in chips)
Seat 9: BBQSquirrel ($114.35 in chips)
thevanquish: posts small blind $0.50
plokio: posts big blind $1
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to tenbob [7s 6s]
jaymesbond: folds
tenbob: calls $1
BBQSquirrel: folds
krisjdk: folds
1348rykkinn: calls $1
bantje22: folds
squidrigs: raises $3 to $4
thevanquish: calls $3.50
plokio: folds
tenbob: calls $3
1348rykkinn: folds
*** FLOP *** [5s 7h 8s]
thevanquish: checks
tenbob: bets $6
squidrigs: raises $6 to $12
thevanquish: raises $143.15 to $155.15 and is all-in
tenbob: ?? WTF ????
 
ChuckTs

ChuckTs

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Wow.

wtf does the overbet mean? Set? Nut straight?

I suck at folding, so I can't see myself laying this down, but I think just maybe it might be the proper play. We may have only like half of the outs we would normally think we would have here.

Normally you could say you have up to 20 outs (three 6s, two 7s, nine flush cards and six straight cards), but here I think we can discount our two pair and trips outs, as well as some of our straight and FD outs.

IMO we're up against an overpair that will most likely fold (from minraiser), and a monster from the ch-r AI player.

Here are some ranges vs the monsters:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 45.550% 41.23% 04.32% 15510 1626.00 { 7s6s }
Hand 1: 54.450% 50.13% 04.32% 18858 1626.00 { 88-77, 55, Ts9s, 96s, 87s, 64s, 96o, 87o, 64o }

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 46.040% 41.81% 04.23% 16141 1635.00 { 7s6s }
Hand 1: 53.960% 49.73% 04.23% 19199 1635.00 { 88-77, 55, AsKs, Ts9s, 96s, 87s, 64s, 96o, 87o, 64o }

We're a little worse than a 1.2 dog and are getting nearly 1.4:1. I don't see how we can fold this. I know I can't. I think with his ch-r overbet we're most likely behind vs a set or two pair, but we're getting odds then anyways.
 
skoldpadda

skoldpadda

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yeah I think I play for rolls here. I like PLO though. If you're a nit (obv you're not) I'd fold.
 
NineLions

NineLions

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But why would a monster overbet, unless he's seen aggression that's likely to call?

On the other hand, something vulnerable like 2 pair should be able to get by with a pot sized bet or something, not something massive like that. Or, because you've both shown interest, a low set, hoping that no one has the straight and he can get higher sets/pairs/draws to fold.
 
tenbob

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I dont know why i put "Freeroll" in the title, should be full ring, anyway.

Yea the massive overbet looks to me like either a set or a strange way to play an overpair.

Any other opnions before i post results ?
 
Schatzdog

Schatzdog

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I'd say this is about as close as it gets. You can fold now without being overly committed or call with what I think is a pretty much flip. I checked out your hand vs an overpair vs top/bottom set. Assuming no other spades are out your pretty much flipping or slightly behind.

Variance is your friend.
 
ChuckTs

ChuckTs

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I dont know why i put "Freeroll" in the title, should be full ring, anyway.

Yea the massive overbet looks to me like either a set or a strange way to play an overpair.

Any other opnions before i post results ?

Not really...I'm still not sure what I'd do here.

Absolute 50/50 to me like schatz said. In-game I wouldn't be able to make my above analysis, and I can see either folding (with the possibly weak thinking that we've only got so much invested, and that we're not getting as many outs as we'd think), or calling (OESD + straight FD + 2 pair + trip outs wtf).
 
dj11

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I call here.

I think over pair went into panic mode.
 
tenbob

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Yea its close, but if our min-raiser calls as well then surely things get much better for us ?
 
ChuckTs

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Well assuming he has a big pair or AKs here:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 43.125% 42.51% 00.62% 38766 565.50 { 7s6s }
Hand 1: 13.873% 13.26% 00.62% 12089 564.00 { AA, AsKs }
Hand 2: 43.001% 42.38% 00.62% 38653 565.50 { 88-77, 55, AsKs, Ts9s, 87s, 87o }
And without AKs (not sure what range we pin him on...looks like an overpair to me):

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 45.595% 44.98% 00.62% 35334 486.00 { 7s6s }
Hand 1: 12.770% 12.15% 00.62% 9546 486.00 { AA }
Hand 2: 41.635% 41.02% 00.62% 32223 486.00 { 88-77, 55, AsKs, Ts9s, 87s, 87o }
Adding in the third player does give us an edge there (esp without AKs), but if he's nitty I don't really see him overcalling with an overpair.
 
ChuckTs

ChuckTs

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Hell even if we're up against top set specifically vs one opponent we're getting odds. I can't fold this.
 
tenbob

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The thing about nitty players Chuck, is that they sit and wait for sometimes hours on end waiting for their big pairs. Even on nl$100 they HATE folding them. I see these guys stack on a regular basis with unimproved over-pairs.

Anyway, I was playing somewhat nitty myself, and 4 tabling at the time, I cried and called. Ill post the results when i get home and get PT open.
 
ChuckTs

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Yeah, I know what you mean, but with this action (you leading and calling a ch-r AI), anyone with a brain should figure out that they're way behind...

Anyways, very interesting hand. Can't wait for the results :)
 
tenbob

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POKERSTARS GAME #13044815095: HOLD'EM NO LIMIT ($0.50/$1.00) - 2007/11/04 - 19:30:18 (ET)
Table 'Retsina' 9-max Seat #4 is the button
Seat 1: krisjdk ($104.30 in chips)
Seat 2: 1348rykkinn ($94.60 in chips)
Seat 3: bantje22 ($44.05 in chips)
Seat 4: squidrigs ($65.25 in chips)
Seat 5: thevanquish ($159.15 in chips)
Seat 6: plokio ($62.55 in chips)
Seat 7: jaymesbond ($113.15 in chips)
Seat 8: tenbob ($161.65 in chips)
Seat 9: BBQSquirrel ($114.35 in chips)
thevanquish: posts small blind $0.50
plokio: posts big blind $1
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to tenbob [7s 6s]
jaymesbond: folds
tenbob: calls $1
BBQSquirrel: folds
krisjdk: folds
1348rykkinn: calls $1
bantje22: folds
squidrigs: raises $3 to $4
thevanquish: calls $3.50
plokio: folds
tenbob: calls $3
1348rykkinn: folds
*** FLOP *** [5s 7h 8s]
thevanquish: checks
tenbob: bets $6
squidrigs: raises $6 to $12
thevanquish: raises $143.15 to $155.15 and is all-in
tenbob: calls $149.15
squidrigs: calls $49.25 and is all-in
*** TURN *** [5s 7h 8s] [Ts]
*** RIVER *** [5s 7h 8s Ts] [Jh]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
thevanquish: shows [Td 9d] (a straight, Seven to Jack)
tenbob: shows [7s 6s] (a flush, Ten high)
tenbob collected $187.80 from side pot
squidrigs: mucks hand
tenbob collected $194.75 from main pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $385.55 Main pot $194.75. Side pot $187.80. | Rake $3
Board [5s 7h 8s Ts Jh]
Seat 1: krisjdk folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 2: 1348rykkinn folded before Flop
Seat 3: bantje22 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 4: squidrigs (button) mucked [Kh Kd]
Seat 5: thevanquish (small blind) showed [Td 9d] and lost with a straight, Seven to Jack
Seat 6: plokio (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 7: jaymesbond folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 8: tenbob showed [7s 6s] and won ($382.55) with a flush, Ten high
Seat 9: BBQSquirrel folded before Flop (didn't bet)
 
NineLions

NineLions

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I call here.

I think over pair went into panic mode.

I'd be more likely to put the button on an overpair, raising TB's flop bet to say I'm ahead of your paired 7 or 8, though it is a minraise.


But I think panic mode is a good guess for the overbet. I'm guessing he planned a check raise, but didn't expect interest shown by both other players. 99/66 wouldn't do this, would they? I'd still guess a set.
 
ChuckTs

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Didn't even notice KK's short stack which is probably an auto-call for a bad nit.

Juicy juicy 9T there. nh sir.
 
NineLions

NineLions

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I'd be more likely to put the button on an overpair, raising TB's flop bet to say I'm ahead of your paired 7 or 8, though it is a minraise.


But I think panic mode is a good guess for the overbet. I'm guessing he planned a check raise, but didn't expect interest shown by both other players. 99/66 wouldn't do this, would they? I'd still guess a set.

Hmm, that's what happens when you're slow typing a response; someone else posts ahead, in this case with the results.


Well, he did his damnedest to buy the pot with outs. nc, tb.
 
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