As nice as it could have been to hit this particular ....

TheNoob

TheNoob

Visionary
Joined
May 2, 2008
Total posts
540
...... nut flush, did I bet too big on the flop?

If so, any detail as to why I would bet smaller and by how much would really be appreciated.

(I have a number of hands from my session yesterday that was a very big loser, and I'm goinig to post as many as I can).

This was maybe a 250 hand session that I was 27/20/1.8.



Stacks:
* SB with $26.35
* BB with $40.85
* UTG with $30.35
* MP with $36.80
* BTN with $24.65

hand.pl


hand.pl

Blinds: $0.00/$0.00
Site: full tilt poker
* * Dealt to BB:A♠ K♠
* * Sklansky group 1
Preflop:
* * UTG calls [$0.25]
* * 2 players fold.
* * SB calls [$0.15] Hero raises to $1.50
* * UTG calls [$1.25]
* * 1 players folded.
* * Total folds this street: 3
* * Potsize: $3.25
Flop: J♠ Q♠ 2♣ Hero bets [$5.25]
* * 2 players fold.
Uncalled bet of $5.25 returned to Hero Hero wins the pot ($3.10)
* * Total folds this street: 1

Poker Hand Converter By Cardschat.com Poker Forum
 
c9h13no3

c9h13no3

Is drawing with AK
Joined
Jan 2, 2007
Total posts
8,819
Yeah, certainly an overbet on the flop. There's very rarely a reason to bet more than pot as a c-bet. Just bet your usual c-bet size, and go from there. You also really wouldn't mind getting raised, since that would allow you to shove over top.
 
TheNoob

TheNoob

Visionary
Joined
May 2, 2008
Total posts
540
Yeah, certainly an overbet on the flop. There's very rarely a reason to bet more than pot as a c-bet. Just bet your usual c-bet size, and go from there. You also really wouldn't mind getting raised, since that would allow you to shove over top.

So even with my oversized counterbet, and understood without other data from the table that you don't have, if he raised my continuation bet are you saying going AI with the nut flush draw is a reasonable move?

I'm not going to ask you to do it, but at this early stage in my poker career, I'm simply going by the seat of my pants and the math that would help me to make that decision is beyond me.
 
c9h13no3

c9h13no3

Is drawing with AK
Joined
Jan 2, 2007
Total posts
8,819
So even with my oversized counterbet, and understood without other data from the table that you don't have, if he raised my continuation bet are you saying going AI with the nut flush draw is a reasonable move?

I'm not going to ask you to do it, but at this early stage in my poker career, I'm simply going by the seat of my pants and the math that would help me to make that decision is beyond me.
A few things here:

1) C-bet stands for "continuation bet". Whenever you raise preflop, just bet ~2/3 of the pot no matter what comes out. The only flops I don't c-bet are like 789 with a flush draw out when I'm holding AQos.

2) Your c-bet size shouldn't change when you actually hit a hand. Players will pick up on this and exploit the hell out of it.

3) Yes, if he raises you, you want to shove over the top. Here's why:

You don't just have a flush draw, you have a nut flush draw, a nut straight draw (tens make you a straight), and 2 over cards. Even if your opponent has QQ, you're still 34% to win by the river. And you're a big favorite over a hand like QT (58%) & all other draws. If I'm check/raised on this board, I'm felting this draw every time.

Also, betting here, if you're called, will often get you a free card on the turn, or allow you to successfully semi-bluff the turn.

But the key here is that your hand doesn't mind action. And by betting this large, you're only getting action from a hand that beats you.


And lastly, and this is a key point: What are you doing in a 25$ NL short-handed game when you're new? Is your bankroll at least $750? I realize the rake at 10$ NL at full tilt is murder, but its better than playing above your bankroll & skill level.
 
TheNoob

TheNoob

Visionary
Joined
May 2, 2008
Total posts
540
And lastly, and this is a key point: What are you doing in a 25$ NL short-handed game when you're new? Is your bankroll at least $750? I realize the rake at 10$ NL at full tilt is murder, but its better than playing above your bankroll & skill level.

Forgive me again ...... this is a .10/.25NL game. The $25 you reference above is the buy in, right? And by short handed you mean 6 max?

My bankroll is about $500, but took a big hit yesterday (20%)

As a newb, do you think the .10/.25 is out of bounds?

Honestly (and I admit it may be over my head to accuratley judge), playing in the really low stakes seemed kind of screwy at times. Maybe I'm wrong and I belong there until I learn more.
 
c9h13no3

c9h13no3

Is drawing with AK
Joined
Jan 2, 2007
Total posts
8,819
Forgive me again ...... this is a .10/.25NL game. The $25 you reference above is the buy in, right? And by short handed you mean 6 max?

My bankroll is about $500, but took a big hit yesterday (20%)

As a newb, do you think the .10/.25 is out of bounds?

Honestly (and I admit it may be over my head to accuratley judge), playing in the really low stakes seemed kind of screwy at times. Maybe I'm wrong and I belong there until I learn more.
When you're new, its better to be over-rolled for the limits you're playing at, because you're just getting your feet wet & it'll take some getting used to.

I don't think its out of bounds, but if you're not beating the game, you should generally step down.

And short handed play is *generally* a bit tougher and has larger fluctuations associated with it. If it fits your style of play, then go ahead and play short handed. Just realize that it will put you in more marginal situations than say full ring will.
 
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