Live Cash Casino Hand $1/2NL: $200 push on a flush draw...too much?

Vegas Cat

Vegas Cat

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Jan 13, 2007
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72
Comments are welcome....

I sat down at a table in my local casino a few days ago at 12:30am in the morning...
I'd been playing for about 3 1/2 hours..it was now almost 4am in the morning. I had about $410 in front of me..

The table had been loose all night...several players winning $150 pots with pathetic "high card" with no one hitting anything by the river but betting big all the way..or calling $15 preflop bets in mid position with j,10s.

One particular lady was doing very well with her chip stack...buying in twice at $200 each time... I think she was now up $1000 in total and had blatantly flipped over 1 or 2 absolute bluffs (ie. 3,5o j,8o) that had not hit anything but her bets had scared everyone off. She giggled and somehow didn't tick any of the guys off with her show....all they would mumble was "ahhhh you did it to me again!!"

A player to my right whispered to me, "She's good" But I wasn't sure about that....I saw alot of the hands she was playing with in different positions and calls she had made and won on high card only, it really didn't make any sense to me.

The only player I thought was good there was the guy with the $1200 stack who had originally sat down with $200 and who sat 2 away from the Dealer. He definitely played position and often I could see him calculating in his head pot odds and making bets that would make it expensive and wrong for someone to call if they had a draw of some sort.

I was in seat 4 from the Dealer and in this particular hand I was on the Button. There were 9 players at the table. I hadn't played many hands in the last 1/2 hour and the table had tightened up a bit (people were still limping in with $2 but starting to fold them on preflop raises).

So being on the button with a bunch of loose players, I decided to raise $15 with my :ac4: :9c4:
(I thought it might be safe since I wasn't known to raise on the button to steal the pot...however..maybe I was being too hopeful that many of them would actually notice this)

..this was after 4 players had already limped in with $2 (including the seat 2 big stack player). The girl in seat 6, currently the SB (no one sat between her and I) decided to call my $15 raise...of course she would, why did I expect anything less?

I could expect her call meant she could have any face card....didn't matter the kicker or suit, she'd play it. Everyone else folded except for Player 2 in
MP, he called as well...oh man, just great!... I had the 2 biggest stacks at the table call me...

Now with $53 in the pot, the flop comes down:

:kd4: :5c4: :7c4:

Player 6 checks and she looks at me, Player 2 checks, and I have no doubt he wanted to see what I was going to do.

I had a flush draw, had raised preflop and knew I had to do a continuation bet to establish my hand.

I bet $40.

Player 6 looks at me some more.. (I might mention that three times in the night she had won about $25-50 from me each time when I was heads up with her and my cards didn't flop after I had pushed with preflop raises and continuation bets that I had to fold when it got to the river) I had a feeling she thought she could beat me and bully me..that night she had this "I am invincible" attitude, but not in a bitchy way...

She calls my $40 and Player 2 folds...(later I hear from him that he put me on a set)

The pot is now $133, and the turn comes down:

:js4:

At the time, I think I got a little nervous...I'd already lost 3 times to this lady and I'm sure subconsciously it was bothering me, I didn't want to lose to her again. I really didn't want her to call another bet of mine, but in hindsight I should realize that since she would play anything, she probably currently had a better hand than I...low, mid, or high pair with any kicker and she would call my bet with any of them.

So perhaps against a smarter player, a big bet would scare them off but not her.

All I could think was, bet really big to push her off her hand.

If you don't have the hand yet and you don't want a call, you only really want to bet big if you more than likely know that the other player will fold.

I push in two $100 stack chips, "$200" I say calmly.

She hesitates for about 20 seconds and decides to call. I know at this point I am beat and can't bet anymore..I have $170 left in front of me and if she
called the $200, then she'd call my remaing $170..so I knew I'd have to fold on the river if she bet...or if she checked, I wasn't betting... and unless she had a lower ace than me, she would win on any pair...

Now there was $533 in the pot and the river comes down:

:3c4:

She checks again and I am kissing the Poker Gods!! "All-In" I say and push the last $170.

"Well I gotta call." She says. The pot is now $873.

She flips over :kc4: :4h4:

I flip over my :ac4: :9c4: and everyone is silent...."Whoa...never put you on that"

"Wow, that hurts" she says..."But good hand" she graciously pushes her chips over to me..

Cheers,
Vegas Cat
 
joosebuck

joosebuck

Legend
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Jan 14, 2006
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4,193
i likely check behind that flop with the info you gave me.
 
J

jeffred1111

Visionary
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Apr 16, 2007
Total posts
792
I also check here: we are in position against a player who might very well try to bluff us out of the pot when our hand fills up. I take the free card and re-evaluate my play when she does bet on the turn (because we know she'll give a stab at the pot if everybody checks the flop). We are in a great spot to stack her, and if our hand doesn't improve, folding isn't all that terrible: better spots are to be had.
 
NineLions

NineLions

Advanced beginner
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Sep 20, 2006
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Risky, taking at stab at the flop with 2 big stacks, one being LAG. But apparently it worked against MP.

Another vote for check the turn.

I don't think trying to push a LAG off her hand is going to be very +EV unless you can get rivers like that every time.
 
Vegas Cat

Vegas Cat

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Jan 13, 2007
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I saw my mistake...

Risky, taking at stab at the flop with 2 big stacks, one being LAG.
I saw myself walking into this mistake big time and can only attribute it to...

....don't play with others when you are tired at 4am in the morning
....don't let losing to a LAG 3 times before get to you

Playing at these times makes me realize how susceptible a player can be when they don't focus...I described to all of you the table and the characters...I knew it...and yet I didn't heed my own gut ...

I posted this situation knowing full well it wasn't a play to be proud of ...but a play to learn from in a future situation... thank goodness I don't do too many of these or I wouldn't be playing at profit...

Thanks for the comments...

Cheers,
Vegas Cat
 
bubbasbestbabe

bubbasbestbabe

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May 22, 2005
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It's nice to be the suckee than the sucker.:D :p ;)
 
Effexor

Effexor

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May 13, 2006
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I saw myself walking into this mistake big time and can only attribute it to...

....don't play with others when you are tired at 4am in the morning
....don't let losing to a LAG 3 times before get to you

Playing at these times makes me realize how susceptible a player can be when they don't focus...I described to all of you the table and the characters...I knew it...and yet I didn't heed my own gut ...

You hit it right there. These 1/2 NL no foldem holdem tables require some thought and sharpness. The last time I went I had 1 really bad day and 1 fairly good day, and the day that went poorly I made every mistake you could think of. I had great reads on the people and I STILL didn't play good. Whats the point of having good reads if you don't use them? /bonk myself on the head.

(1) I bluffed a calling station
(2) I called someone who was clearly a total nit / rock.
 
J

joeeagles

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Mar 24, 2007
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I would have checked the turn. You had your flop bet called and you felt like you were behind, too risky to make that bet against a loose player and a perfect spot to get the free card that the flop bet had earned you.
 
mrsnake3695

mrsnake3695

I'm confused
Joined
Jun 30, 2006
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1,597
I agree with checking behind on the river. There are several reasons for a continuation bet on the flop, one to get paid get the pot right then, to bet paid on the hands you hit and to get a free card after the turn if you're on a draw. So for those reasons I like the flop bet.

But bluffing large into a loose player willing to call down with high cards is not the smartest thing to do. The time to bet them big is when you do hit the hand because you will get paid off.

If you check behind after the turn then there is about a 99% chance villan will bet the river, if you hit the flush then you can still win a big pot with a strong reraise that will most likely get called. If you miss then you can get out fairly cheaply.

Of course you already knew all this.

I've learned to be very patient with very loose players it will eventually pay big.
 
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