Learning Omaha, first interesting hand

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bw07507

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Curious on your thoughts how i played this:

pokerstars Game #11688766789: Omaha Pot Limit ($0.05/$0.10) - 2007/08/25 - 17:55:00 (ET)
Table 'Zerlina' 9-max Seat #4 is the button
Seat 1: Jackman ($5 in chips)
Seat 3: BelegStrongb ($10.20 in chips)
Seat 4: touho123 ($4.05 in chips)
Seat 5: bw07507 ($9.90 in chips)
Seat 7: ACE2one3 ($9.90 in chips)
Seat 8: canalla ($10 in chips)
Seat 9: Manfred671 ($13.60 in chips)
bw07507: posts small blind $0.05
ACE2one3: posts big blind $0.10
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to bw07507 [Ac As 2d 6c]
canalla: calls $0.10
Manfred671: folds
Jackman: calls $0.10
BelegStrongb: folds
touho123: raises $0.45 to $0.55
bw07507: raises $1.40 to $1.95
ACE2one3: calls $1.85
ColnagoKid joins the table at seat #6
canalla: folds
Jackman: folds
touho123: calls $1.40
*** FLOP *** [Tc Td 8h]
bw07507: checks
ACE2one3: checks
touho123: bets $2.10 and is all-in
bw07507: calls $2.10
ACE2one3: calls $2.10
*** TURN *** [Tc Td 8h] [8d]
bw07507: checks
ACE2one3: checks
*** RIVER *** [Tc Td 8h 8d] [Qd]
bw07507: checks
ACE2one3: checks


In the games Ive been playing it seems like it just gets pot reraised over and over preflop til there are a bunch of people all in almost every single hand (all preflop). Im guessing I should leave a table like this?
 
Bombjack

Bombjack

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Looks OK. I wouldn't complain if you folded the flop though. Your hand is pretty transparent and you're counting on touho123 to be bluffing. You have no reason to bet the turn or river.

In the games Ive been playing it seems like it just gets pot reraised over and over preflop til there are a bunch of people all in almost every single hand (all preflop). Im guessing I should leave a table like this?
No, it sounds like a really great table. These are the tables you want. Your re-raise is OK on a table like this. On another table, it would be OK just to call. AA isn't an automatic re-raise. Your Aces here are not good ones - single suited with raggy sidecards.
 
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alan1983

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bomb are aces "always" a reraise 6-handed?
 
dj11

dj11

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Beware Omaha, and really beware learning Omaha at a nickel dime table.

Preflop, the raise is OK, but this hand is more suited to Hi/Lo than hi alone.

Remember that in Omaha, the average winning hand is something like a str8. 6 handed it might drop to trips. Top pair does win on occasion, but not often enough to chase after someone else is showing strength.

Is AA always worth a reraise? No!. It depends on the other cards in your hand. 2 suited hands with AA you betcha, or high cards to help make a straight. But this hand is sort of naked and I'd tread lightly.
 
OzExorcist

OzExorcist

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With that hand, you really wanted to flop either an ace or three of a kind on the board to be hanging around. On that flop, against two opponents, you're quite likely beat - as it stands, you're probably drawing to four outs (one of two aces or two tens), and it's quite likely that at least one of the tens is in the hand of one of your opponents. By the river, I'd be majorly surprised if there isn't at least one full house out there.

AA hands can still be quite powerful in Omaha, just be aware that it won't often be the AA on its own that wins the hand for you. Having your aces double suited, or with some KQJ-type cards to back them up is a much better prospect.
 
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bw07507

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thx for the advice guys. Ive been reading up articles on PL omaha and really want to get good at it.

Beware Omaha, and really beware learning Omaha at a nickel dime table.

You think I should play the .01/.02c tables until I really get a hang of it??
 
Bombjack

Bombjack

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bomb are aces "always" a reraise 6-handed?
No. If I have really raggy aces and I'm in the blinds and there are limpers, I sometimes won't even put in a first raise. You're just playing for set value.

If they're double suited, your hand goes up massively in value, and I'll usually raise and re-raise from any position.

Position is really important. From the blinds you'll be out of position, and it's going to be really difficult to play since you'll be be acting before anyone else. You'll also give away your hand if you're re-raising from the blinds, and people will know what they have to beat and can play accordingly with position on you.

From late position it's often worth a re-raise for isolation. You should also be re-raising a wide range in position, not just Aces (but beware light 3-betting tight early position raisers, who probably have Aces and will 4-bet you), so your hand is disguised.

Another thing to consider is stack sizes. If you can get most of the money in pre-flop, that's great for you, because you nearly always have 50%+ equity with any Aces versus any other hand. (Some hands like 9876 double suited can be a favourite vs AA23 rainbow, but it's rare.) If you're much deeper, there's no reason to get a lot of money in pre-flop with bad Aces.
 
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alan1983

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No. If I have really raggy aces and I'm in the blinds and there are limpers, I sometimes won't even put in a first raise. You're just playing for set value.

If they're double suited, your hand goes up massively in value, and I'll usually raise and re-raise from any position.

Position is really important. From the blinds you'll be out of position, and it's going to be really difficult to play since you'll be be acting before anyone else. You'll also give away your hand if you're re-raising from the blinds, and people will know what they have to beat and can play accordingly with position on you.

From late position it's often worth a re-raise for isolation. You should also be re-raising a wide range in position, not just Aces (but beware light 3-betting tight early position raisers, who probably have Aces and will 4-bet you), so your hand is disguised.

Another thing to consider is stack sizes. If you can get most of the money in pre-flop, that's great for you, because you nearly always have 50%+ equity with any Aces versus any other hand. (Some hands like 9876 double suited can be a favourite vs AA23 rainbow, but it's rare.) If you're much deeper, there's no reason to get a lot of money in pre-flop with bad Aces.

What about hands like KQJT , JT98 double suited?

How much action can we call or raise with them preflop?

Is it ok to call allins with them when opponent prob. had aces?
 
OzExorcist

OzExorcist

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I probably haven't played enough decent-level Omaha to give a definitive answer (don't get much of a chance *pouts*), but in general if you're drawing in Omaha, you prefer to be drawing to the nuts.

K/Q/J suited hands can be OK, but unless the suited ace comes on the board you've got to be worried that somebody's drawing to the higher flush. Suited aces are powerful like that, so people like to stick around with them.

I'd say they're probably marginal hands that need to be played carefully.
 
Bombjack

Bombjack

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What about hands like KQJT , JT98 double suited?

How much action can we call or raise with them preflop?

Is it ok to call allins with them when opponent prob. had aces?

These are super-premium hands and you should always play them for any raise. You'd prefer to have the nut flush draws obviously, but just play carefully and don't call shoves on 3-flush boards, and you'll find your flush still adds a lot of value to your hand.

You're usually on around 45% equity with this sort of hand versus Aces, so in a cash game yes you must call an all-in due to pot-odds, although you're not too happy about it. In a short-staked tournament you probably won't want to gamble.

I would however rather have 9876ds in a re-raised multi-way pot, because people tend to raise high cards more, and this means your cards are more likely to be live.
 
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