Leading the turn on 3bet pot

J

johnlocke

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Sep 28, 2020
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PokerStars - €0.25 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

BTN: 102.48 BB
SB: 88.92 BB
BB: 100 BB
UTG: 117.08 BB
MP: 100 BB
Hero (CO): 100 BB

SB posts SB 0.4 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.4 BB) Hero has 8 9

fold, fold, Hero raises to 3 BB, BTN raises to 9 BB, fold, fold, Hero calls 6 BB

Flop: (19.4 BB, 2 players) 5 7 T
Hero checks, BTN bets 6.08 BB, Hero calls 6.08 BB

Turn: (31.56 BB, 2 players) 5
Hero bets 9 BB, BTN raises to 29.2 BB, fold

BTN wins 47.08 BB


In this hand I decided to lead the turn and polarize my range. I thought it made sense to lead this hand because i will want to lead flushes and some ace high flushdraws as well. Also, his cbet on the flop was small, which means some of his range should be folding.

What do you think of this play? Is it sound?
 
E

eetenor

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Mar 5, 2019
Total posts
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Awards
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PokerStars - €0.25 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

BTN: 102.48 BB
SB: 88.92 BB
BB: 100 BB
UTG: 117.08 BB
MP: 100 BB
Hero (CO): 100 BB

SB posts SB 0.4 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.4 BB) Hero has 8 9

fold, fold, Hero raises to 3 BB, BTN raises to 9 BB, fold, fold, Hero calls 6 BB

Flop: (19.4 BB, 2 players) 5 7 T
Hero checks, BTN bets 6.08 BB, Hero calls 6.08 BB

Turn: (31.56 BB, 2 players) 5
Hero bets 9 BB, BTN raises to 29.2 BB, fold

BTN wins 47.08 BB


In this hand I decided to lead the turn and polarize my range. I thought it made sense to lead this hand because i will want to lead flushes and some ace high flushdraws as well. Also, his cbet on the flop was small, which means some of his range should be folding.

What do you think of this play? Is it sound?


Thank you for posting.

Preflop will 2.5 get as many folds as 3 in your player pool?
What is your 4 bet range? What is the player pools 4 bet range?

Assuming you call TT-77-55 preflop how would you play that range on this flop 90bb deep? We want to get stacks vs the range this V is representing what flop action with the sets does this most often.
If we are going to bluff our 89 would we not want to make it look like a set on the flop?


What range does your player pool lead here for 9bb? Is that what this V would expect?
My standard V are 90% weak when leading that size so I would expect to get raised often if I blocker bet this turn as my V play standard not adaptive poker strategies -so I would be blocker betting the nuts ONLY.

What would you do with TT 77 55 AQhh if you had only called flop? If it is not lead for 9 then we cannot bluff that way.
I know this is a low frequency action for you but if your V is not skilled how would it be effective vs them?
At this stake level we have to ask are we even in a player pool where bluffs work often enough to be used in a spot like this?
My experience has been that folding the turn has a greater ROI than any other action at these stakes.

Hope this helps
:):)
 
Last edited:
F

fundiver199

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Preflop
Pretty standard although we could fold to that 3-bet against some more nitty opponents.

Flop
I feel, that this low board kind of favour your range, and you flopped pretty well with an OESD and BDFD as well. He could have an overpair, but he could also have a ton of broadway hands, that missed, and he is probably C-betting his entire range for this small size. So while calling is definitely way better than folding, I prefer to put in a check-raise here.

The main argument against this is, if you think, he will come over the top a lot, because that will put us in a pretty miserable spot, where we might have to fold and give up our equity. But then again we have pretty much the worst showdown value, we can have, so if we are not check-raising this as a semi-bluff, then what are we ever bluffing with?

Turn
Your hand got significantly worse now, since you are drawing dead to a flush or boat, your BDFD did not come in, and even against an overpair you only have 1 card left to improve. Also two of your outs are now very much tainted, since Jh and 6h will put out a 1-liner to a flush. So getting aggressive now makes absolutely no sense in my opinion.

I also dont like your sizing. You are trying to sell the story, you just made a flush, but would you really lead for less than 30% pot with a flush? I think, you would go much larger, and I am not shocked, that you ended up getting raised. And as played I like your fold for all the reasons stated above.
 
J

johnlocke

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Joined
Sep 28, 2020
Total posts
17
Preflop
Pretty standard although we could fold to that 3-bet against some more nitty opponents.

Flop
I feel, that this low board kind of favour your range, and you flopped pretty well with an OESD and BDFD as well. He could have an overpair, but he could also have a ton of broadway hands, that missed, and he is probably C-betting his entire range for this small size. So while calling is definitely way better than folding, I prefer to put in a check-raise here.

The main argument against this is, if you think, he will come over the top a lot, because that will put us in a pretty miserable spot, where we might have to fold and give up our equity. But then again we have pretty much the worst showdown value, we can have, so if we are not check-raising this as a semi-bluff, then what are we ever bluffing with?

Turn
Your hand got significantly worse now, since you are drawing dead to a flush or boat, your BDFD did not come in, and even against an overpair you only have 1 card left to improve. Also two of your outs are now very much tainted, since Jh and 6h will put out a 1-liner to a flush. So getting aggressive now makes absolutely no sense in my opinion.

I also dont like your sizing. You are trying to sell the story, you just made a flush, but would you really lead for less than 30% pot with a flush? I think, you would go much larger, and I am not shocked, that you ended up getting raised. And as played I like your fold for all the reasons stated above.



Thank you for your opinion. I agree that OTT my hand is much worse and that the sizing isn´t great.

I thought about leading because i would like to lead some flushes to get value from OverPairs. The plan here would be to bluff most rivers, especially hearts. But maybe it is easier and more correct to just check raise the flop for the reasons you just mentioned.
 
C

Casey55

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Total posts
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Thank you for your opinion. I agree that OTT my hand is much worse and that the sizing isn´t great.

I thought about leading because i would like to lead some flushes to get value from OverPairs. The plan here would be to bluff most rivers, especially hearts. But maybe it is easier and more correct to just check raise the flop for the reasons you just mentioned.


I think you could have check-raised flop as a fine option. When we check/call flop, On the turn we can lead out but would have to be larger.. because the board pairs I think it is a good equity card for our range and bad for villain's range so I think we can bet on it, but would choose a polarized sizing of 2/3 pot or larger.
 
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