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mischman
Legend
Silver Level
So, when someone folds in 1-2 second(s) you assume they dont have a good hand or think you have the best hand, thus they would lose and fold qiuckly
Also, when someone folds in say 20-30 seconds, you assume they dont have a good hand or think you have the best hand, thus they would lose and fold slowly
You see.....when someone folds to me, regardless of time, i assume they dont have a good hand or think i have the best hand, thus they would lose and fold.
gord962
Legend
Silver Level
If someone insta folds usually means they have a shit hand, if someone takes a long time to fold they either a) have a shit hand and were busy, or b) able to make a tough decision and lay down a decent hand based on the board and your betting tendacies. Those who are able to lay down tough decisions require more attention to what's on the board and where you try a bluff/c-bet because if they call next time, they will likely have you beat.
J
joeeagles
Legend
Silver Level
Lol, good idea!!! Now you can fool Chuck even better.
Seriously, in some instances bet timing and call timing gives info. For example, if someone takes extra time to call a bet it makes you think they might be on a draw and they're figuring their odds.
In the situation described in your hand, a quick fold could give the idea your PF raise was a steal attempt made with a bad hand, and by calling the reraise and subsequently slow folding the flop bet on a rag board, you're giving the impression that you folded a good hand, so when you attempt a steal the next time they won't think you're a loose raiser.
In my post before this I told you about the SM. Many times players will raise PF from LP even with 43o, now if the button or one of the blinds reraises usually the LP player who first raised takes his time to fold, because an instant fold gives away that his raise was a steal. Instead he slow folds as to make believe he has something like AJ or KQs and is evaluating if to call or even reraise.
Harrington talks about this in one of his books (its actually in one of the problems in volume 2, if I recall correctly). Of course, its intended mostly for live play but some of it can apply to online as well. If you multitable you won't really notice it much though, unless you're really focused and observant.
tosborn
Visionary
Silver Level
I agree that bet sizing is probably your best tool for online tells. However, most of my decisions are based more on Poker Office stats than they are how long it took someone to act.
I will agree that sometimes you will be able to get some information from how long it takes them to fold, call, or bet. But, this is always gut feeling to me and not scientific enough to place much more than 25% emphasis on.
I use sort of a 40/40/20 rule.
40% of a decision is based on bet sizing. What sort of holdings would play the hand this way?
40% is based on stats. Would a player with these stats play a hand this way?
20% is based on gut feeling. After watching this person play xx hands, do I think that he has the hand that he is representing?
If my quick calculations are that he has the hand then I fold. If I don't then I'll raise. If my hand is still live and I'm around 50% then I call.
Of course there are a ton of other things that go into a situation such as pot odds and implied odds. But when faced with a decision, I do a mental checklist of the three items above and play the hand accordingly.
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mischman
Legend
Silver Level
Ok, if you play 10000 hands agaisnt a player and 90% of the time he waited 10-15 seconds to raise AND showed down a monster, ill give him credit and fold.
To say that because i waited 10 seconds to raise instead of 3, or vise versa is NOT inaccurate. Everyone in their life time has played more than 1 table, most up to 4. I could go get a drink, have to pee, change a CD, pet my dog, scoot my chair cushion something....or maybe....this is rare...but SURF THE WEB while playing. There is to many factors to take into account when using timing, Robs point of the 'instant(literally)' call is somewhat accurate.
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mischman
Legend
Silver Level
In my above example with 10k hands and the guy that waited 10-15 secs to raise everytime he had a monster, you would assume this is a solid good player.
Hes obv not, if he was good(or even half ass decent) over a course of 10,000 hands, he would of realized he gave you a HUGE tell and proceed to wait 10-15 seconds to make a huge bluff on your ass and mix up his play and own you.
Hes obv not, if he was good(or even half ass decent) over a course of 10,000 hands, he would of realized he gave you a HUGE tell and proceed to wait 10-15 seconds to make a huge bluff on your ass and mix up his play and own you.
J
joeeagles
Legend
Silver Level
M
mischman
Legend
Silver Level
Change of plans, i found a porn site and will NOT brb.
J
joeeagles
Legend
Silver Level
Uh oh, looks like you now have a date with your right hand. Or maybe you're a lefty?