KJ Top two pair

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Bentheman87

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Stacks: - Eugene1982 with $19.85 - Bigvuty with $14.70 - Bentheman87 with $27.65 - sushilikewhoa with $40.10 - Aragami-san with $24.20

index.pl


index.pl

Blinds: $0.00/$0.00
Site: full tilt poker
* - Dealt to Bentheman87:
kd.gif
jc.gif

* - Sklansky group 5
Preflop:
**- 1 players fold.
* - bentheman87 calls [$0.25]
**- 1 players fold.
* - aragami-san calls [$0.15]
* - Eugene1982 checks
* - Total folds this street: 2
* - Potsize: $0.75
Flop:
3c.gif
ks.gif
jh.gif

* - aragami-san bets [$0.25]
**- 1 players fold.
* - bentheman87 raises to $0.50
* - aragami-san calls [$0.25]
* - Total folds this street: 1
* - Potsize: $1.75
Turn:
ts.gif

* - Aragami-san checks
* - bentheman87 bets [$1]
* - aragami-san raises to $3
* - bentheman87 ???

Should I call or reraise here?
 
pigpen02

pigpen02

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Fold to the straight is a possibility.
 
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Bentheman87

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Fold are u kidding?!? You think he has AQ and just called preflop, then bet and called with a gutshot straight draw? Or Q9 and bet and called on the flop with a gutshot? Really if there's anything to be worried about it's 33, but if he has it I'm just going to have to let him win all my $. I created this thread mainly to ask if you guys think my hand is strong enough to just call, or am I vulnerable here and should I reraise and if so to how much.
 
pigpen02

pigpen02

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Yes, I think AQ could have bet that way. You obviously know that is not the case and berate me for thinking so. I stand by fold as an option.
 
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Bentheman87

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Srry I didn't mean to berate you I shouldn't even say anything since I already know the outcome and my view is biased. But still how can you put him on a gutshot straight draw? Is it because the bets on the flop were so small? Btw, I shouldn't have min raised I know...
 
OzExorcist

OzExorcist

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Granted, that turn card wasn't pretty, but what hands are we really worried about here?

AQ has us beat, but surely it would've raised pre-flop? In a short-handed game against just the big blind and one limper?

Q9 has us beat, and is maybe a more likely candidate for a limp from the small blind.

Sets have us beat, but again, the pre-flop action makes everything other than 33 unlikely.

Everything else is either crushed or still drawing at us, but even a combo draw is a sizeable dog with only one card to come. So you're in a way ahead / way behind situation.

Reads on the player would be useful, but I think I flat call this for pot control and try to see a cheap(ish) showdown.

Moving back a bit though, why the limp pre-flop and the min-raise on the flop?
 
pigpen02

pigpen02

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Harrington recommends only calling one caller with AQ offsuit. Other bets could be to see the turn cheaply over your minraise.
 
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Bentheman87

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No reads on this guy.

"Moving back a bit though, why the limp pre-flop and the min-raise on the flop?"

I normally raise from the CO with KJ if it's folded to me but ocassionally call. As for the min raise on the flop, I didn't want to scare him away if he had a lower two pair or one pair, since these hands are almost dead against top two pair. But I should have considered he also might have a straight draw and raised more just to be safe.
 
ChuckTs

ChuckTs

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Raise preflop; open limping is terribly weak.

As played on flop I raise more for value/protection etc.

As played on turn, I'm not sure I want to stack anymore since I'm not sure my opponent will oblige with anything that doesn't have us beat, but I probably still reraise this as a lot of other one pair/two pair/bluffs are still out there.

pigpen, folding because we're afraid of one hand in his range is just silly. Yes it's possible, but so are tons of other hands. I also seriously doubt Harrington suggests to limp AQ - quote that part of his book please.
 
OzExorcist

OzExorcist

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As played on turn, I'm not sure I want to stack anymore since I'm not sure my opponent will oblige with anything that doesn't have us beat, but I probably still reraise this as a lot of other one pair/two pair/bluffs are still out there.

Can you find a fold here if you get re-raised though?

I agree about raising pre-flop: Ben, while I can see what you're getting at with changing your play up, I really don't think this is a good hand to be doing it with. It just leads to situations like this, where we make our decisions harder than they maybe need to be.
 
ChuckTs

ChuckTs

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That's exactly the problem is that we have no idea what villain holds - his range varies from outright bluffs to semibluffs to the nuts.

As played I'm not sure I can find a fold if he shoves (I raise to $10, villain shoves last $13 and change, we prob have to call), but I can definitely say I wouldn't be comfortable about it. As mentioned that's just one reason we need to raise pf and raise that flop more.
 
C

Czech Razor

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Reads on the player would be useful, but I think I flat call this for pot control and try to see a cheap(ish) showdown.
I try not to let limped multi-way pots grow too much especially if I have just two pair. I also wouldn't go nuts on the turn and stack off without reads here.

Your min-raise on the flop accomplishes nothing so now we're not sure how to interpret his raise on the turn.

I guess you call and then either throw out a blocker bet on the river or check and evaluate his bet size hoping he doesn't have 33 or 10's in the hole.

Some of the goofy stuff which happens in smaller games stumps me.
 
tenbob

tenbob

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Wow this is a bad spot.

Raise pre-flop, you didnt do that so.......

So raise to $1.50 on the flop....... you didnt do that so......We dont have a clue where we are. Set ? Pair + flush draw ? Straight ? Weaker two pair ?

Bah we have played this so bad we can easily fold and learn our lessons, but if we played this bad up to now we might as well call and see what he does on the river, we have outs, we still have some FE, and some weaker hands call.

Call, re-evaluate river and call down light unimproved (if possible)
 
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Bentheman87

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Well here's what happened. I called on the turn and the river was 5 of spades. He bet about 1/2 to 2/3s pot and I called, he won with ace 3 suited in spades for a flush.
 
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