ITT: sh4gnscoob rates his hands post flop

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shagnscoob

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Okay this is to practice rating hands the way sklansky does post flop using: poor, marginal, strong, very strong, and monster. I find that I can't do it on the fly, and only can think in terms of betting/calling/folding, so I've decided to go through my HH and pick out hands that I won or lost and only post the hole cards and flop and write a little about why I chose that qualification. Sklansky says eventually we see patterns and it becomes very easy to see how strong your hands are or aren't.

Hopefully you guys can correct me (mostly my thinking, I doubt the classifications need that much correcting).


MONSTER

Dealt to sh4gnscoob [Jd 7h]
*** FLOP *** [7s 7c Jc] : Well it would have been a monster if I didn't fold preflop :D This is the only hand on this list that I didn't actually play in. I couldn't find a good example of a monster. Maybe I'm too hard on my own hands.



VERY STRONG


Dealt to sh4gnscoob [Ac Ks]
*** FLOP *** [4h Kc 3s] : Top pair best kicker on a relatively uncoordinated board. Would play aggressively and fear a deuce/five. If an ace dropped and there was lots of action I would still see the river. Would see the showdown almost every time unless board paired.

Dealt to sh4gnscoob [Qc Qh]
*** FLOP *** [8h 2h 3h] : This hand was against 2 opponents after I raised PF. I had four to a flush and top pair, with only 2 cards available to beat my flush if another heart landed. Even if the flush hadn't completed, I also had an over pair, only fearing A and K. Had this been against more opponents it may have been less powerful, but against only 2 people it was very strong and needed only a little protection.

Dealt to sh4gnscoob [Ts Td]
*** FLOP *** [5c 7d 2h] : Overpair on a pretty uncoordinated board. Only loses to people who would have played aggressively on preflop. Play aggressively to protect hand, not quite a monster but still a very strong hand.

Dealt to sh4gnscoob [Ad Jc]
*** FLOP *** [Ah Js 7h] : Top 2 pair on a 2 flush board. Would fear only another heart, or another card between 7 and J and play very aggressively.


STRONG

Dealt to sh4gnscoob [As Qh]
*** FLOP *** [7h 4h Ad] : Top pair with a backdoor flush draw to the 3rd nuts. 2 outs to trips, 3 outs to 2 pair, 1.5 outs to backdoor flush. I'm only behind to a real flush draw and sets. Should be played very aggressive to knock potential flush drawers out. Against 1 or 2 people this hand is strong, against more it would probably lose value.

Dealt to sh4gnscoob [Tc Kc]
*** FLOP *** [6c Jd 2c] : No pair but 9 outs to 2nd best flush. Plus anohter 3 outs to a big pair, 3 outs to a middle pair. Strong drawing hand even against a few opponents, stands to win most showdowns.

Dealt to sh4gnscoob [Qd Ac]
*** FLOP *** [4c As 8s] : Top pair but possible flush draw. Would win more against fewer opponents. Would raise if there weren't many, check/call to turn if there were more than 1 or 2? I don't feel that raising would knock anyone with 4 to the flush out, even if it was re-raised. Perhaps a check raise...

Dealt to sh4gnscoob [9d Th]
*** FLOP *** [Jh 7c 8h] : Made straight but any 9 or T makes a higher straight possible. Plus flush draw. Would check/raise to knock out any drawers, then play turn aggressively if it wasn't a scare card.

Dealt to sh4gnscoob [Qd Td]
*** FLOP *** [6s 2d Ad] : 4 to 2nd nuts flush. Would play aggressively to knock out any ace holders/king backdoor drawers.

Dealt to sh4gnscoob [Kc Tc]
*** FLOP *** [5d Ks 7c] : Top pair, backdoor flush, kicker is overcard as well. 2 to straight, although it would be a very low straight so I wouldn't be too scared if there was a lot of PF action, they may have folded. Would play aggressively to turn and river slowing only to an Ace/4,5,6,7,8

Dealt to sh4gnscoob [Ah Ac]
*** FLOP *** [Qh 7h As] : Top set, no overcards, but a very coordinated board. Maybe I'm judging by the results, but theres 2 to the top straight and 2 to a flush even though I've got the Ah. Would play very aggressively still, to knock out drawers. Would fold to action if the straight or flush drew more cards.



MARGINAL

Dealt to sh4gnscoob [5h 5d]
*** FLOP *** [Jc Jd 2d] : Middle pair, however paired high card meant againt a lot of opponents I was looking at probable trips, not to mention a number of scare cards could come on the turn (any 6 and up). Although there was a backdoor flush draw, I only had a 5 and the 2 was on the board so I could only beat 2 other flushes. I (incorrectly) raised PF, and saw this against one opponent who probably thought I had a bigger hand, so he folded when I (correctly) bet again.

Dealt to sh4gnscoob [Ac 9h]
*** FLOP *** [Qh 4c 9s] : Middle pair with an ace kicker. 3 outs to 2 pair, 2 outs to the trips, and no other redeeming qualities. This hand would have to win essentially unimproved against few opponents (less chance of a queen).

Dealt to sh4gnscoob [9c 9d]
*** FLOP *** [3c Ad 2s] : Better than the other pocket 9's because this time the board has only 1 card higher. Should be decent against few opponents and preflop action was minimal. Bet out, but would fold to any raise fearing ace pair or wheel draw.

Dealt to sh4gnscoob [8d 8s]
*** FLOP *** [2s 5c 3d] : overpair. Would call this way ahead or way behind. Too many overpairs to mine, and the board puts 3 to a straight, plus any action might suggest a low pocket pair set. Check/fold.

Dealt to sh4gnscoob [Jc Jd]
*** FLOP *** [Ad 2h Th] : Hidden middle pair, but drawing near dead to an ace and flush draw.

Dealt to sh4gnscoob [Ah Qd]
*** FLOP *** [Qc Jd Tc] : Top pair, but beat by any AK who now has a made straight to the nuts. Plus flush draw. Would fold to significant action/many opponents.

Dealt to sh4gnscoob [Kc Ks]
*** FLOP *** [Ts 8d Jd] : big overpair, but 3 to a straight and 2 to a flush. unfortunate.

Dealt to sh4gnscoob [Jd Ac]
*** FLOP *** [8d 5d 4d] : 4 to 4th flush. Plus 3 cards are lowish, so anyone holding a diamond or two is likely to have a higher card.



POOR

Dealt to sh4gnscoob [Ac Kh]
*** FLOP *** [8s Qd 7h] : Against a few opponents this hand has 6 outs to make top pair, but no other draws available. And even if top pair hit the board is SOMEWHAT coordinated for straights. And if the board pairs this hand is drawing dead against trips.

Dealt to sh4gnscoob [9d 9h]
*** FLOP *** [Qd Ad 5c] : Low pair relative to board with 2 outs to a set and 1.5 outs to a back door flush. I originally put this in marginal but after reading the sentence I just wrote moved to poor.

Dealt to sh4gnscoob [Qc Ks]
*** FLOP *** [2c As 7c] : No pair with a backdoor straight draw on a 2 flush board. Even the 6 pair outs would lose to any ace. Check/fold.

Dealt to sh4gnscoob [Qs As]
*** FLOP *** [4d 4s Kh] : Drawing nearly dead against a 4, backdoor nut flush, and 3 outs to top pair. 4.5 outs to maybe winning.... check/fold.


Let me know if you guys agree/disagree with my thinking. This was mostly for practice judging my hands post flop. I'm going to do this a couple more times after I go through the rest of my history.
 
BelgoSuisse

BelgoSuisse

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Hand strength cannot be estimate per se. You need to factor in the range of hands of your opponent and the depth of your stacks.

For instance, Top pair top kicker (TPTK) is a monster when preflop action rules out overpairs in your opponent's range and stacks are small relative to blinds. It becomes a poor hand if the preflop betting reduces your opponent's range to overpairs. And anyway, TPTK is not a hand you want to stack with when you play deep (100 big blinds or more) on any type of board given the likelihood anyone giving you this kind of action has a set.
 
Dwilius

Dwilius

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Congratulations on CC ME BelgoSuisse. OP needs to state limit,
I'm pretty sure thats what this is. General point that range of hands (and # of players to the flop) are important factors still stands.
 
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shagnscoob

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May 26, 2008
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This is .05/.1 LHE. Certainly general point still stands about preflop action. It's also exactly what you mean, TPTK could be good in some situations and not in others, that's why Sklansky says to use a different classification system than just "TPTK" or "4 to a flush" because sometimes those hands can vary greatly in strength based on the situation.
 
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