Interesting river; .5/1 FLHE

ChuckTs

ChuckTs

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SB is very loose and somewhat aggressive. Button is very very loose-passive having shown down lots of bottom pairs or even king-high hands.

What kind of hands do we expect to see from these guys and what's our action?

pokerstars 0.50/1.00 Hold'em (5 handed)

Preflop: Hero is BB with A
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, Q
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.
UTG calls, 1 fold, Button calls, SB completes, Hero raises, UTG calls, Button calls, SB calls.

Flop: (8 SB) 3
spade.gif
, A
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, 7
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(4 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, UTG folds, Button calls, SB calls.

Turn: (5.50 BB) 8
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(3 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, Button calls, SB calls.

River: (8.50 BB) K
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(3 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, Button calls, SB raises (raises $0.55 to $1.55 and is all-in), Hero ...
 
J

jeffred1111

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Maybe two pairs since the King can give him a two pair (he is loose and could have completed K7 or K8) but I don't think this is the case: if he had hit any part of the flop or turn harder than you (or even weaker than you), I would expect a raise somewhaere since he is supposed to be aggro. That or missed hearts (AhXh) and tried to buy the pot. His c/c gives it away, he has a marginal hand or a drawing one and doens't want to price himself out.

So most like holdings are just one pair and he tries to "buy" the pot here since he doesn't put you an Ace or a weak Ace and wants you to fold. This is a bull line and expect to have the best hand at showdown since button very likely has Ax or a smaller pp too (there's no draw anywhere and he keeps calling).

Call and nh altough I like very much a c/r, but with button being passive (what about CO?), betting yourself might be good. And since we're not concerned about button's holdings, raising here might be good if he is a calling station (he called your bet, why would he raise now?).
 
Bombjack

Bombjack

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Since it's not a full bet can you can only fold or call amirite? Obviously you're always calling on the end for 5% of the pot, although you're rarely ahead with one pair with this action (your hand looks like exactly what it is) when someone check-raises the river.

As for what they have... who knows. If your read on Button is right, he could have any pair, although his hand looks like a weak Ace. SB could have something like K7 for two pair, or could be going crazy with A4 or suchlike, and since he's only got half a bet left he thinks he might as well shove it in. People do weird things at micro-stakes. So basically it's an easy call. If you can re-raise, I'd do so because I think you're ahead of the Button's range.
 
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ChuckTs

ChuckTs

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Actually we have the option of raising too, which is kind of what I'm getting at. People rarely raise-bluff on the river, and I'm almost sure I'm beat vs the lag.
 
J

jeffred1111

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Actually we have the option of raising too, which is kind of what I'm getting at. People rarely raise-bluff on the river, and I'm almost sure I'm beat vs the lag.

You think that K hits him ? I think he turns over 87 a lot more often than not if he has two pairs, but the fact that people rarely raise bluff the river doesn't matter since he could be raising to shake you off and get only the BTN to call : if he is aggro, he will raise before since you seem to like your hand (you probably wouldn't fold for a turn c/r right ? Maybe he slowplayed, but we're still crushing his range so this is almost a pumpfist raise to suck the BTN for another bet and cut your loses if LAG has you beat.

On such a crappy board, two pairs if often good and laggy/aggro opponents will NOT slowplay AK in the SB
 
ChuckTs

ChuckTs

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You think that K hits him ? I think he turns over 87 a lot more often than not if he has two pairs, but the fact that people rarely raise bluff the river doesn't matter since he could be raising to shake you off and get only the BTN to call

Not necessarily the king, but I'm almost sure I'm behind here. I don't think villain will bluff after my show of strength down every street vs two opponents, but I have to at least call given my odds.

: if he is aggro, he will raise before since you seem to like your hand (you probably wouldn't fold for a turn c/r right ? Maybe he slowplayed, but we're still crushing his range so this is almost a pumpfist raise to suck the BTN for another bet and cut your loses if LAG has you beat.

I don't think we're crushing his range, but your point about raising is exactly what I'm getting at. LAP has shown he'll call down with like 42 for bottom pair, and if we're behind LAG right now, we can possibly cut our losses with a reraise to squeeze some more out of LAP.

PokerStars 0.50/1.00 Hold'em (5 handed)

Preflop: Hero is BB with A
club.gif
, Q
diamond.gif
.
UTG calls, 1 fold, Button calls, SB completes, Hero raises, UTG calls, Button calls, SB calls.

Flop: (8 SB) 3
spade.gif
, A
diamond.gif
, 7
heart.gif
(4 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, UTG folds, Button calls, SB calls.

Turn: (5.50 BB) 8
heart.gif
(3 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, Button calls, SB calls.

River: (8.50 BB) K
club.gif
(3 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, Button calls, SB raises, Hero 3-bets, Button caps, Hero is confused

Still have to call right?
 
F Paulsson

F Paulsson

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Well, hang on. 3-betting after SB checkraises is mandatory, let's just establish that first. Button has shown no strength whatsoever, and even if SB does have us beat, we still want to extract maximum side pot from button.

That said, button's cap is weird and will probably only make sense if it's a misclick. In fact, his range that is well played on that river, unless he''s colluding with SB and knows he will checkraise, is just about zero.

Either way, it's a wtf-call for you. Folding is out of the question.
 
J

jeffred1111

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This hand makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. Call and take note. This seriously looks like collusion and/or clueless play. I'd go with the latter.
 
ChuckTs

ChuckTs

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ok the river's a pretty no-brainer call given the pot size and the fact that LAP is an absolute donkey but I thought it was pretty interesting.

Agreed that it's either clueless play, a misclick or possibly even collusion. Players are for the most part brain dead at these stakes and I don't doubt that LAP could have called down with KQ here only to raise the river with the king. In the real hand LAP showed Q3c and LAG showed 78o for two pair.
 
J

jeffred1111

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Agreed that it's either clueless play, a misclick or possibly even collusion. Players are for the most part brain dead at these stakes and I don't doubt that LAP could have called down with KQ here only to raise the river with the king. In the real hand LAP showed Q3c and LAG showed 78o for two pair.

Sure SB had 87 (wich I called :)), but I'm probably c/r you on this river with AQ too (and sometimes missed heart with a pair) and you've been betting all the way since I know I'll have overlay with the BTN calling and you are reraising me actually never (and might be folding if I'm deeper and my line doesn't look like bullcrap).

And with BTN being the passive fish he was, SB played the hand close to perfection, unless you had a bigger two pair (but are you the kind of guy to raise in the BB with A7, A8, A3?, hardly...): in position, you had no choice but to bet since BTN probably wasn't betting.
 
ChuckTs

ChuckTs

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Sure SB had 87 (wich I called :)), but I'm probably c/r you on this river with AQ too (and sometimes missed heart with a pair)


erm but you're not villain. Villain was LAG - he would have raised with AQ preflop, and if not then, then at least on the flop or turn. I'm actually pretty surprised he didn't 3-bet the turn - he could have made a lot more off me. bluffing does make up a portion of his range, but the majority he's got me beat here IMO.
 
J

jeffred1111

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erm but you're not villain. Villain was LAG - he would have raised with AQ preflop, and if not then, then at least on the flop or turn. I'm actually pretty surprised he didn't 3-bet the turn - he could have made a lot more off me. Bluffing does make up a portion of his range, but the majority he's got me beat here IMO.

No since he was AI wether he c/r the turn or the river and he probably wanted the overlay from BTN.
 
pigpen02

pigpen02

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Since villain was all in, I think you should have raised. At least you would have probably gotten a few from the button in the secondary pot.
 
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