I give you a hand with a poll

What should hero do?

  • Check

    Votes: 22 24.4%
  • Bet

    Votes: 68 75.6%

  • Total voters
    90
dbitel

dbitel

Guest
I cant be bothered to look through PT, but I'm sure you've all played similar hands before:

6max, Full Tilt, 100NL, both hero and villain have $100 in their stack. Assume no reads.

Preflop (6 players): Hero is dealt :ks: :kc: on the button
2 folds, CO calls, Hero raises to $4.5, 2 folds, CO calls.

Flop ($10.5, 2 players): :ac: :9d: :2s:
CO checks, Hero.....?


Please give reasoning for your answer as well
 
Lo-Dog

Lo-Dog

Cardschat Elite
I voted bet. Checking says you don't have an Ace. I bet and hope to take it down right there.
 
t1riel

t1riel

Legend
If CO had an Ace, he would have bet on the flop (in theory anyway). If he does have an Ace, he has a weak kicker. Making a bet on the flop tells Co that you still have a good hand (which you do) but CO will probably think you have a better kicker dur to the raise preflop. You have to represent your hand. Checking only gives CO a free card, which you don't want to do.
 
stormswa

stormswa

Legend
bet

Id bet this about 80% of the time, It depends how often I had been continuation betting. If I had been CBetting alot then I might check this being afraid villian has noticed this and is check/raising me.


but if I have a normal table image this is prefect flop for a continuation bet and if it is called you can re-evaluate the turn and see what to do. I would most likley also bet the turn and hope to go check/check on river.


you say no reads but I would open up my pokerace hud drop down stats to see how much villian chek-raises.... hehe :)
 
Last edited:
pocketTWOs

pocketTWOs

Rock Star
play it like i had the A, bet $2-$5, and if he calls or raises, i know he has the A, but i would not pause, i would make the bet fast.
 
Xife

Xife

Guest
An easy bet.. You've got to find out where your kings are.. If you check, it leaves open a chance for him to bluff at you OR think his ace small is good.. Altho I doubt he would call the raise with ace small.. But i've seen more weird things happen..

So bet out a good.. $4~5, if you get raised let go of the hand.. if you get called and he checks again.. I would just check it down since he wouldnt be chasing anything on that board.

Personally, I would put him on low pocket's... Due to his limp and then call of your raise... Dunno what other hands would really do that..
 
AnnoDomino

AnnoDomino

Visionary
check

most prob you have the best hand

what cards are you worried about?

not aces, if he has one already, another doesn't matter

call this one down if he bets on further streets, u win with kings, or lose less to aces

if he checks on further streets, bet, win a bit more
 
brown110

brown110

Guest
I think you would have to bet. He checked the flop when the ace came down, which shouldve been a bet to protect just the pair of aces. If he calls your bet on the flop thats when i may get a bit worried and think about checking the turn... but in this circumstance I can't see a check as a good option.
 
Xife

Xife

Guest
check

most prob you have the best hand

what cards are you worried about?

not aces, if he has one already, another doesn't matter

call this one down if he bets on further streets, u win with kings, or lose less to aces

if he checks on further streets, bet, win a bit more


If i'm villain, and I see a check behind after my check in this sorta situation... I immediatly sense weakness..Or great strength which would be either AA or 99... Which is enough for me to toss out a good $5~6 bet on 4th street (If I was the villain) depending what the card is...Wether I have the ace or not.. Which would really put hero in a tough situation. A check behind screams out pocket's that are scared off by the ace.
 
X

x-Longshot-x

Guest
Bet

I dont think what to do is the question, i think its how much. I think you bet about 3/4 the pot here and take it down right here because he has like KQ or something silly like that, he isnt gonna smooth call if you are beat, if he Reraises you then fold
 
zebranky

zebranky

Rock Star
bet

You have to bet - you've got position, you raised PF, so unless he flopped off a monster and is slow playing (just not likely), you're ahead, even if he has an Ace. Anything up to about A-10 should fold to your bet anyway, because with your PF raise he can't rule out you having Ace and better kicker.

Besides, betting is the only way to find out if he even has an A.
 
stormswa

stormswa

Legend
remember

I dont think what to do is the question, i think its how much. I think you bet about 3/4 the pot here and take it down right here because he has like KQ or something silly like that, he isnt gonna smooth call if you are beat, if he Reraises you then fold


remember this is also low limit hold-em and limping with hands like AJ and AQ are possible. I actully think they are trapping by playing like that, dont ask me why?!?!

there are alot of possibilities here but I dont think that changes the fact that even with small pair you are betting a continuation bet here. This is perfect flop for a continuation bet because of the ace.


ps: your still a donk longshot

pss: just kidding buddie.

psss: maybe.
 
robwhufc

robwhufc

Cardschat Elite
I'd bet. if he'd called preflop with a pair he's as unhappy as you with the flop. If he's got an Ace you'll find out as cheaply as possible. It's a waste of KK - you want an opponent with QQ and a low flop, but a check here leaves you having to make a more difficult decision in later streets.
 
dbitel

dbitel

Guest
OK, well only one other person got the right answer (I was the other person that voted to check). This is a pretty cut and dried situation. Checking is clearly best and it isn't close.

Before I give the reasons why, I want to hear why you think it might be that checking is best
 
X

x-Longshot-x

Guest
OK, well only one other person got the right answer (I was the other person that voted to check). This is a pretty cut and dried situation. Checking is clearly best and it isn't close.

Before I give the reasons why, I want to hear why you think it might be that checking is best
There is no "right" and "wrong" answer. Therefor you cannot come in and say that you are right, especially when it seems that the overwhelming majority thinks that you need to be aggressive and lead out at this pot. unless you are saying that a majority of the people who replied are donks?
 
stormswa

stormswa

Legend
hehe

He needs to bet. If he wants to check and play like a "kitty cat" then the kiddie game is down the street. ---------->


here we go hijacking another thread longshot, by the way stay away from my kiddie game.

on serious note though yes I'm betting this flop almost everytime which I already said....back on topic.
 
CraigAD

CraigAD

Guest
Checking just invites a bet on the turn and then the Hero is faced with a tough decision and probably cannot call.
 
dbitel

dbitel

Guest
longshot,

yes, I am saying that the majority here are wrong. It doesn't mean that they are donks, it just means they are yet to fully grasp some poker concepts.

There is quite clearly a more +EV line than another, and the most +EV line is to check, so I am calling that the "right" answer. I'll explain why later, but I'd like to here your thoughts on why checking might be best
 
RiverNoHelp

RiverNoHelp

Rock Star
OK, well only one other person got the right answer (I was the other person that voted to check). This is a pretty cut and dried situation. Checking is clearly best and it isn't close.

Before I give the reasons why, I want to hear why you think it might be that checking is best


I don't think there has ever been a hand of poker played where what to do is cut and dry..There is so much variance as to how play a hand that just about anyone can make a case for checking or raising in any situation that's it all relative..

All that being said I believe betting is the best option..You have to see where you stand..If he smooth calls he may have an ace and will be hoping to get in a check-raise on the turn when you fire at it again..If you check behind him and he leads on the turn, the best option (once again, in my opinion) is to check-raise..If he re-raises you then you should probably be done with the hand..IF he smooth calls then you evaluate the hand on the river before deciding what to do..However, all of these scenarios cn simply be avoided by betting the flop to get a reaction from your opponent..You actually may save yourself a bet or to instead of check/calling the turn and river since if he re-pops you you can pretty much put him on an ace to begin with..
 
X

x-Longshot-x

Guest
longshot,

yes, I am saying that the majority here are wrong. It doesn't mean that they are donks, it just means they are yet to fully grasp some poker concepts.

There is quite clearly a more +EV line than another, and the most +EV line is to check, so I am calling that the "right" answer. I'll explain why later, but I'd like to here your thoughts on why checking might be best

I completely 1000000% disagree. A bet here, lets hero take the lead, he is the aggressor in the hand and is putting the pressure on the opponent. A bet here could take down the pot against a player with like A 2. A check here is simply unacceptable. A check says to the opponent.... "please please bet on the turn and make me fold my kings when they are still good, i would very much love that" a check means that you are playing passive and passive poker is not winning poker. and also, nothing against you, but i highly doubt you have "fully" grasped poker concepts playing at 100 NL
 
stormswa

stormswa

Legend
ut oh

I completely 1000000% disagree. A bet here, lets hero take the lead, he is the aggressor in the hand and is putting the pressure on the opponent. A bet here could take down the pot against a player with like A 2. A check here is simply unacceptable. A check says to the opponent.... "please please bet on the turn and make me fold my kings when they are still good, i would very much love that" a check means that you are playing passive and passive poker is not winning poker. and also, nothing against you, but i highly doubt you have "fully" grasped poker concepts playing at 100 NL



longshot dont start him going it isnt pretty!

by saying you should check what is the point of ever continuation betting? I mean do you just continuation bet when you hit the hand? if that is case you will become very very readable.

I think you bet on flop no matter what unless your opponent has seen you continuation betting alot. So what do you do when he fires on turn? fold?
 
dbitel

dbitel

Guest
I will bet this flop nearly all the time with both AK and with 78s.

If he fires the turn, of cource I'm calling, folding would be retarded
 
Dorkus Malorkus

Dorkus Malorkus

HELLO INTERNET
Miscellaneous points. I don't think you can say the decision is 'not close', but I'm not hugely commited to either side of the argument.

- Ax is an unlikely holding for villain. Most people would raise with strong Aces and either raise or fold with weak Aces. A moderate/weak Axs is possible, I suppose. On occasions where villain has Ax, betting is clearly the best option as it will invariably be your cheapest route out of the hand. If villain calls or raises given that we represented an Ace preflop and on the flop, we can be done with the hand unless we hit 2 outs.

- If we bet the flop and can follow through with our bets on future streets, we will either (a) get called down by an Ace, (b) get slowplayed to death, (c) possibly force a weak Ax to fold, or (d) force any other weak holding that is calling the flop (~TT?) to fold. I think the two positive outcomes are slightly more likely than the two negative ones, treating both as separate 'groups'.

- If we bet the flop, very few hands that we are ahead of are calling, and very few, if any hands that we are behind are folding.

- If we check the flop, we may induce a bluff from villain on the turn. Against an unknown player (as I rambled on about in the AJs thread), this is potentially dangerous, however, although less so in this example as we have position and the pot is smaller.

- If we check the flop, we do not necessarily lose the initiative in the hand, as this is a flop villain would have been expecting us to c-bet, and the fact that we haven't may actually set off alarm bells. This is read-dependent though, to an extent.
 
stormswa

stormswa

Legend
k

I will bet this flop nearly all the time with both AK and with 78s.

If he fires the turn, of cource I'm calling, folding would be retarded

so he puts pot size in on turn and river and you call both down and he shows some hand like A9 suited or something like that and you feel ok with that?

so basicly you let him control the whole hand and really didnt have clue what he had.

Or how about this you check and a Q hits turn and he flips over QQ and you lose where he would of folded to your continuation bet. Just seems silly to me.
 
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